Wrestling is not the enemy

[BrainLeakage]

There is a lot of misconception about grappling, specifically wrestling. In MMA, the fans often talk of striking, grappling AND WRESTLING. As if wrestling was something outside of grappling. Wrestling is just as much part of grappling as boxing is part of striking. Also, people seem to lump what they do not like about grappling into wrestling, as if wrestling is the source of all that is evil. This is a mistake. Wrestling is not the the cause of less entertaining fights. The cultrip is STALLING. Wrestling is an exciting part of MMA, just as BJJ or boxing is.

If we seek to improve the entertainment side of MMA, we should focus limiting stalling and NOT prohibiting wrestling.

You guys agree?

tldr; Wrestling is your friend, the enemy is stalling.

 

[wilKO]

I think the problem lies in wrestling being the only main base without a way of finishing. BJJ and strikers are taught to finish fights. Wrestlers aren't. But wrestlers can learn GNP and submissions so it's really all about individuals. Arona is a BJJ guy who doesn't excite as is Lister. Hughes and Rampage as wrestlers are the opposite.

 

[BrainLeakage]

I think the problem lies in wrestling being the only main base without a way of finishing. BJJ and strikers are taught to finish fights. Wrestlers aren't. But wrestlers can learn GNP and submissions so it's really all about individuals. Arona is a BJJ guy who doesn't excite as is Lister. Hughes and Rampage as wrestlers are the opposite.

Yeah, very true. It's not about wrestling being boring.

I think that if people see wrestling without stalling, it would not be a problem. And like you said, you can stall with BJJ or even boxing.

 

[Break Brick]

I think that's a fair point. I have to admit to be guilty of lumping wrestling and stalling together at times. I think because of how wrestling is classically viewed(in my case anyway) position is normally prioritised over trying to finish, and that mentality brings with it certain negative opinions from fans. I'd like to see some sort of system that negates the tactic of maintaining position and "looking active". If someone isn't looking to pass or advance and is just holding then yellow card or something. Feels like I've gone off point here...

 

[drainbamage]

wrestling is the enemy if you has none of it and are in an mma fight with someone who does


also wrestling IS different than a lot of pure-grappling styles, especially when you get into the different styles of wrestling e.g. grecco-roman.

 

[van1ty]

the problem is guys who get taken down, and try to stall to get stood up by the referee.

the whole problem would be solved if we simply said "the referee isn't allowed to ever stand you up, and the only way to get up is to get up on your own"

 

[robmorpeth]

Maybe change the rules of MMA so a fighter can win by KO, Tapout, 10 second pin or judges decision.


I jk of course.

 

[BrainLeakage]

I think that's a fair point. I have to admit to be guilty of lumping wrestling and stalling together at times. I think because of how wrestling is classically viewed(in my case anyway) position is normally prioritised over trying to finish, and that mentality brings with it certain negative opinions from fans. I'd like to see some sort of system that negates the tactic of maintaining position and "looking active". If someone isn't looking to pass or advance and is just holding then yellow card or something. Feels like I've gone off point here...

Actually, you are very much on point.

Focusing on finding ways to limit stalling in the groundgame or standup would very much improve the entertainment side of fights.

 

[Artur Koenig]

Wrestling is an integral part of mma. It is so prevalent in modern mma that you literally cannot become a top fighter today without at least a modicum of tdd. Still, I thought fans had just, kind of accepted that if they watch mma they will have to tolerate the occasional boring grind and stall fight.

 

[Break Brick]

the problem is guys who get taken down, and try to stall to get stood up by the referee.

the whole problem would be solved if we simply said "the referee isn't allowed to ever stand you up, and the only way to get up is to get up on your own"

Good point. You think we would see a lot more scrambles/sub attempts/sweeps etc without the possibility of ref stand ups?

 

[BrainLeakage]

wrestling is the enemy if you has none of it and are in an mma fight with someone who does


also wrestling IS different than a lot of pure-grappling styles, especially when you get into the different styles of wrestling e.g. grecco-roman.

Yeah, but one could say that about the striking arts no?

I just feel people focus on wrestling too much and that everything could be solved by finding ways to diminish stalling.

 

[ABC]

There is a lot of misconception about grappling, specifically wrestling. In MMA, the fans often talk of striking, grappling AND WRESTLING. As if wrestling was something outside of grappling. Wrestling is just as much part of grappling as boxing is part of striking. Also, people seem to lump what they do not like about grappling into wrestling, as if wrestling is the source of all that is evil. This is a mistake. Wrestling is not the the cause of less entertaining fights. The cultrip is STALLING. Wrestling is an exciting part of MMA, just as BJJ or boxing is.

If we seek to improve the entertainment side of MMA, we should focus limiting stalling and NOT prohibiting wrestling.

You guys agree?

tldr; Wrestling is your friend, the enemy is stalling.

true statement, shouldn't be any arguments about it

 

[BrainLeakage]

the problem is guys who get taken down, and try to stall to get stood up by the referee.

the whole problem would be solved if we simply said "the referee isn't allowed to ever stand you up, and the only way to get up is to get up on your own"

Yup, the very definition of lay'n'pray: laying on your back praying for the ref to stand you up.

 

[Artur Koenig]

the problem is guys who get taken down, and try to stall to get stood up by the referee.

the whole problem would be solved if we simply said "the referee isn't allowed to ever stand you up, and the only way to get up is to get up on your own"

Haha, yeah, I think you`re right. I may be mistaken but it seems that over the last couple years fighters have been making more of an effort to improve their TDD and wrestling. I remember having to sit through many groan worthy fights a few years ago where a striker or bjj guy would get taken down and smothered for 3 rounds, unable to defend the takedown and unable to get back up. There was nothing worse than seeing a fighter holding on for dear life, praying for a standup that will never come :icon_cry2

Like I said, I could be wrong, but I don`t see that in the UFC as much as I used to. Which is certainly for the best.

 

[ABC]

Yeah, but one could say that about the striking arts no?

I just feel people focus on wrestling too much and that everything could be solved by finding ways to diminish stalling.

you should point out that what people refer to as lay and pray ISN'T wrestling. Wrestling isn't sitting in your opponents guard on your knees not doing anything. Wrestling is driving into your opponent, making them uncomfortable, and getting into a dominant position to control them. Since one of the basic principles of wrestling is control, it has nothing to do with lay and pray (which is a neutral position)

 

[van1ty]

You look at guys like penn, edgar, gsp... when they're on their back THEY STAND UP IMMEDIATELY.

 

[t00br00tal]

Fighters need to learn how important having a good guard is. When I see a fight turning stale due to stalling on the ground, I blame the guy on bottom as much as the guy on top. If you really have no sweeps or submissions in your arsenal, you damn well deserve to be on your back, losing, while a crowd boos you.

 

[BrainLeakage]

you should point out that what people refer to as lay and pray ISN'T wrestling. Wrestling isn't sitting in your opponents guard on your knees not doing anything. Wrestling is driving into your opponent, making them uncomfortable, and getting into a dominant position to control them. Since one of the basic principles of wrestling is control, it has nothing to do with lay and pray (which is a neutral position)

This is so true. You're describing active wrestling, which I think is definately not the problem.

 

[notoverrated]

not all grinding fights are boring to me (i like when the guy gets a td starts some gnp and pretty much just throws the other guy around like a silva/fitch fight), its when the guys are both just laying there when i get frustrated (i blame the guy on the bottom to) if the guy isnt trying to get up and the other guy isnt trying to finish what are they trying to do? half the time the guy in guard is throwing tiny punches and the guy on bottom is just holding his hands trying to be stood up.
and people who circle the other guy waiting for him to make a mistake are boring also (usly the guy never takes advantage of the mistakes) so no wrestling is not the enemy but boring fights are apart of the sport im not going to stop watching because some guys are boring.

 

[WINNERBYTWISTER]

There is a lot of misconception about grappling, specifically wrestling. In MMA, the fans often talk of striking, grappling AND WRESTLING. As if wrestling was something outside of grappling. Wrestling is just as much part of grappling as boxing is part of striking. Also, people seem to lump what they do not like about grappling into wrestling, as if wrestling is the source of all that is evil. This is a mistake. Wrestling is not the the cause of less entertaining fights. The cultrip is STALLING. Wrestling is an exciting part of MMA, just as BJJ or boxing is.

If we seek to improve the entertainment side of MMA, we should focus limiting stalling and NOT prohibiting wrestling.

You guys agree?

tldr; Wrestling is your friend, the enemy is stalling.

I agree.

I wrestled for 12 years and it is a grind. Wrestlers tend to develope a unique core strength which makes them more powerful than most non-wrestlers.

Wrestling is definitely a form of grappling and I say that if a wrestler can use it to win a fight than more power to him. The burdon is on the opponant to defend TDs, go for sweeps, and try and sub the wrestler.

Great post.