Social WR Lounge v252: Move to C T Pa Town?

Is gentrification bad?

  • Also yes

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Gregolian

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Can the mods drop the past link shit in here for me? Maybe @irish_thug if you can put down the tacos for a second?


Mod Note: This thread is for general conversation and any other conversations to avoid derails in regular threads. If you find yourself going off topic in a thread, please quote the person's post, come in here, click "insert quote" and continue on in here. This is also still the War Room. Do not expect OT/Bare Knuckles rules in here.


 
"Gentrification" is generally used to frame improvement as a negative thing.
Does this look like an improvement for Kenny and his family:


It's great for outsiders who move in but it prices out those who already live there. Salt Lake City is a good example. Years ago SugarHouse and Cottonwood Heights is where lots of college kids and middle class folks lived. Now with the recent developing done in the area... CH has 2 million dollar homes being built and SugarHouse the average rent for a 1 bedroom is over 1500 for anything that isn't 25 years old.

Another example in Utah:
https://www.ksl.com/article/50147333/7-story-apartment-building-will-replace-former-road-home

Gentrification that doesn't account for the already currently living in the area folks is trash and garbage. Nothing wrong with improving an area but when you build residential spots that the locals can't afford... they have to pick up and move into areas that they can that then prices out those poor folks and it's how you end up with Magna and West Valley City in Utah being like our own little slice of Watts/South Central LA cause the people living there see no hope/future so they turn to gangs.
 
It's great for outsiders who move in but it prices out those who already live there. Salt Lake City is a good example. Years ago SugarHouse and Cottonwood Heights is where lots of college kids and middle class folks lived. Now with the recent developing done in the area... CH has 2 million dollar homes being built and SugarHouse the average rent for a 1 bedroom is over 1500 for anything that isn't 25 years old.

Gentrification that doesn't account for the already currently living in the area folks is trash and garbage. Nothing wrong with improving an area but when you build residential spots that the locals can't afford... they have to pick up and move into areas that they can that then prices out those poor folks and it's how you end up with Magna and West Valley City in Utah being like our own little slice of Watts/South Central LA cause the people living there see no hope/future so they turn to gangs.

But, again (as mentioned in the other thread), you don't just build nice housing in a garbage area and then bring in a great neighborhood that people can't afford. What happens is that the neighborhood builds up first, then demand for housing at higher rate follows. If you don't build more housing, people just end up paying luxury prices for the existing stock (look at what $2M gets you in San Jose, for example). Building more keeps the prices of existing homes down.
 
@ghandi its my fault for how I framed the question. I should have asked do you think this guy deserves to go to jail over this rather than did he do something criminal.

Look I wasn't always a lawyer. When I was young if you saw someone walking through your hood and you fronted him the cops didn't get called. This was before cell phone cameras and all that. Maybe this is just nostalgia for my youth speaking.
 
@ghandi its my fault for how I framed the question. I should have asked do you think this guy deserves to go to jail over this rather than did he do something criminal.

Look I wasn't always a lawyer. When I was young if you saw someone walking through your hood and you fronted him the cops didn't get called. This was before cell phone cameras and all that. Maybe this is just nostalgia for my youth speaking.

Do you actually get any significant jail time for assault that doesn't cause injury? Or don't most states have levels to their assault charges? Unless it was something he made a habit of, I doubt that guy would get a month here. Probably a fine, suspended sentence and a good behaviour bond.

Basic assault is committed in South Australia if you (without the consent of another person, being the victim) apply force to that person, make physical contact with that person knowing they might not want you to, threaten (with words or by conduct) to apply such force, do something which is intended to apply such force, or if you accost or impede that person in a threatening way. Such actions can be both direct and indirect. For example, if you have assaulted a person who is holding a child and that child is injured because they are dropped, that child is also a victim of the assault. However, generally accepted social behaviour (e.g. patting a person’s shoulder to get their attention), or behaviour that is allowed by law, cannot be assault. Threatening another person will also not be an assault unless it was reasonable for that person to think you could actually carry out the assault (i.e. threats made in jest to do impossible things are not assault). The maximum penalty for basic assault is 2 years imprisonment, but if you cause actual harm to the person, this is extended to 3 years.
 
But, again (as mentioned in the other thread), you don't just build nice housing in a garbage area and then bring in a great neighborhood that people can't afford. What happens is that the neighborhood builds up first, then demand for housing at higher rate follows. If you don't build more housing, people just end up paying luxury prices for the existing stock (look at what $2M gets you in San Jose, for example). Building more keeps the prices of existing homes down.
I don't see that happening though jack is the problem.

SLC isn't a booming city but it's certainly growing. They "revitalized" (God I hate that term) SugarHouse and now you can't buy even an OLD house in the neighborhood for under 650k. My old roommate USED to own one there that he bought like 15 years ago for 300k.

SLC also has another problem as it has re-done downtown too. They've built up new apartments and stuff that they claim is income restricted and yet... if you are single you have to make less than 35k a year and the single room or studios go for 1200 a month. HOW DOES SOMEONE MAKING 35K gross afford 1200 a month?

I was helping my folks look for houses when they moved out here. Most of the new development in the valley? STARTS at 550k and given the housing market nothing goes for less than sticker... Hell, if a house is on the market for 550k you better off 600k or you won't even hear back.

Park City USED to have people that worked at the ski area working there. Now? Most of the condos start at 650k and the houses start at 1 mil. Means the folks that work at the ski area and in the commercial stuff out there have to live in the valley and commute 45 minutes to work.

That's not sustainable. Unless the government were to step in and provide incentives to companies to build lower priced housing.. these companies will just target the upper end fancy shit as they make more money back when the stuff is sold/run.

EDIT:
To add, SLC is having house builders like Toll Brothers, Edge Homes, Ivory Homes, and Hamlet Homes show up developing large LARGE chunks of property constantly. Guess what? Even the existing houses in crappy parts of the county like Magna and WVC are going up in a way that it's pricing people out. Coworker bought a condo for 140k but then she had to replace ALL the flooring, replace the hot water tank, re-tile the bathroom, replace the furnace and by the end she was out another several K in just fixing the place up to feel like she wasn't living in a dump.

Older homes now too are suffering out here from house flippers. They buy old ass houses by offering bundles of cash above asking (say a house is listed at 400k they offer 500k) and then they reno it and sell it for 700k just 6 months later.

So this idea that just building will allow prices to stay down doesn't work in practice dude. I've fucking seen it not work in practice where I live now and I saw it STARTED where I used to live. My folks had 5 acres and their house they had BUILT for them cost a total of 350k in the 80s. They sold it all for 750k. Just building to build doesn't mean prices go down.
 
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I don't see that happening though jack is the problem.

SLC isn't a booming city but it's certainly growing. They "revitalized" (God I hate that term) SugarHouse and now you can't buy even an OLD house in the neighborhood for under 650k. My old roommate USED to own one there that he bought like 15 years ago for 300k.

SLC also has another problem as it has re-done downtown too. They've built up new apartments and stuff that they claim is income restricted and yet... if you are single you have to make less than 35k a year and the single room or studios go for 1200 a month. HOW DOES SOMEONE MAKING 35K gross afford 1200 a month?

I was helping my folks look for houses when they moved out here. Most of the new development in the valley? STARTS at 550k and given the housing market nothing goes for less than sticker... Hell, if a house is on the market for 550k you better off 600k or you won't even hear back.

Park City USED to have people that worked at the ski area working there. Now? Most of the condos start at 650k and the houses start at 1 mil. Means the folks that work at the ski area and in the commercial stuff out there have to live in the valley and commute 45 minutes to work.

That's not sustainable. Unless the government were to step in and provide incentives to companies to build lower priced housing.. these companies will just target the upper end fancy shit as they make more money back when the stuff is sold/run.

But what I'm saying is that if they were allowed to build more housing, the prices wouldn't go up like that. It's the restriction on supply that really causes prices to soar. People don't (or shouldn't) have to choose between development, better jobs, and higher pay on the one hand or affordable housing on the other. Legalize construction, and you can have both. Markets work if you let them.
 
I don't see that happening though jack is the problem.

SLC isn't a booming city but it's certainly growing. They "revitalized" (God I hate that term) SugarHouse and now you can't buy even an OLD house in the neighborhood for under 650k. My old roommate USED to own one there that he bought like 15 years ago for 300k.

SLC also has another problem as it has re-done downtown too. They've built up new apartments and stuff that they claim is income restricted and yet... if you are single you have to make less than 35k a year and the single room or studios go for 1200 a month. HOW DOES SOMEONE MAKING 35K gross afford 1200 a month?

I was helping my folks look for houses when they moved out here. Most of the new development in the valley? STARTS at 550k and given the housing market nothing goes for less than sticker... Hell, if a house is on the market for 550k you better off 600k or you won't even hear back.

Park City USED to have people that worked at the ski area working there. Now? Most of the condos start at 650k and the houses start at 1 mil. Means the folks that work at the ski area and in the commercial stuff out there have to live in the valley and commute 45 minutes to work.

That's not sustainable. Unless the government were to step in and provide incentives to companies to build lower priced housing.. these companies will just target the upper end fancy shit as they make more money back when the stuff is sold/run.



Sometimes though juvenile and not productive I just wanna scream fuck America at the top of my lungs.

We have so many stupid problems that seen so solvable and yet we just keep doing the same bullshit and then have the nerve to wonder why our country is a mental illness factory
 
But what I'm saying is that if they were allowed to build more housing, the prices wouldn't go up like that. It's the restriction on supply that really causes prices to soar. People don't (or shouldn't) have to choose between development, better jobs, and higher pay on the one hand or affordable housing on the other. Legalize construction, and you can have both. Markets work if you let them.
I added an edit you might want to read. Where I used to live in the valley we had a new development start and finish in the year we lived there just .5 a mile up the road from us, another across the street, and one 2 miles up the road. LIke 30-ish houses (your usual amount in the housing development). Their listing prices all started at 450k and I guarantee they all went for 550k or more most likely. And the older stuff? It's going up in price too.



Sometimes though juvenile and not productive I just wanna scream fuck America at the top of my lungs.

We have so many stupid problems that seen so solvable and yet we just keep doing the same bullshit and then have the nerve to wonder why our country is a mental illness factory



Like I'm browing apartments and found a really good one that I could afford if the studio got listed today but their website... "prices are subject to change".

Guarantee I'm priced out in 2-3 months whenever the studio is open.

Why can't I be pro gentrification?

This poll sucks
 
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