Would this Max beat the Dustin that beat him in 2019? And is he a better than in 2019?

[markg171]

Dustin isn't retiring because he hates money, he's retiring because he's slow and has aged out of the division.

This is setting aside the guy literally can't kick above his waist since hip surgery. He walks like an old cowhand rocking back and forth. No shit his kicking game is great lol. We saw these guys fight in their prime, it was fun but Max got hurt and was lucky to survive the fight.

You regularly have terrible / weird takes, but carry on

Congrats on completely missing that MAX is the one who's a kickboxer these days. His kicks allow him to keep bigger guys than he's used to out of range, gas them down, as well as makes it that he doesn't have to try and outbox a good boxer like Dustin.

Which, weight issues notwithstanding, was Max's problem in 2019. They boxed each other for 25 minutes and Max lost. This time he kickboxed him for 25 minutes and won. Max has gotten better and evolved while Dustin stayed the same and presented the same issues he always has.

It's like you didn't even watch the fights or something.

 

[markg171]

Dustin slowed down just enough for Max to finally be better than him. They fought when they were both in their primes and Dustin beat the shit out of Max, with Max's chin being the primary reason he didn't get absolutely wiped out in that fight. Win is a solid win but you have to look at the context, Dustin was KO'ed against Justin a couple years prior and went through a war against Islam and got finished again, in his fight right before this one.

Since we're all about using that context with Ilia's wins, I hope you guys will just keep that same logic for your boy.

Man's talking about logic and context, but then somehow doesn't mention that this Max that didn't get better only Dustin got worse, also KO'd Justin who you also mention beat Poirier.

Couldn't possibly be that Max got better though.

 

[RockyLockridge]

It's really a coin flip with Max and Dustin. Sure, Max actually won an undisputed title.

Fought a former LW champion to earn the title, won undisputed from the goat of his division decisively, rematched won decively again, defended against an undefeated contender won with ease, defended against a former lw champion won with ease.

yeah I genuinely, Have no clue what the hell you're talking about.

 

[chinarice]

Man's talking about logic and context, but then somehow doesn't mention that this Max that didn't get better only Dustin got worse, also KO'd Justin who you also mention beat Poirier.

Couldn't possibly be that Max got better though.

Couldn't be that Ilia was just better than Max or Volk or Charles noooo they have to just be too shot now.

I am not sure if this is a Sherdog meme at this point but it should be.

 

[GOATtalks]

It's really a coin flip with Max and Dustin. Sure, Max actually won an undisputed title. But Dustin has fought way better fighters at 155 than Max ever did at 145. It's just a fact. Look at all the future Hall of Famers Dustin fought.

The main issue is that Dustin is a true 155er and moved up at the right time in his career years ago, and had to fight tougher competition at 155. Max probably would have been a true 155, but he had a big weight advantage fighting at 145 that Dustin gave up years ago.

Max is 33 and now just moving up to LW. I don't think we'll ever see what a real LW Max looks like because even though he's only 33, he's been in a ton of wars and has fought a long time. He's realistically closer to 35 or 36 age wise with all the damage, and probably doesn't have a ton of fights left.

When you think about it like that, Dustin is probably the better fighter because 155 was way more stacked when he competed in it compared to 145.

lol, Max fought Aldo, Volk, Ilia and Conor. Including himself it’s the all time top5 at FW. Max also beat Oliviera, to whom Dustin lost. Max arguably fought even better competition than Dustin. He also KO’ed Gaethje who was coming of a Dustin KO win

 

[markg171]

Couldn't be that Ilia was just better than Max or Volk or Charles noooo they have to just be too shot now.

I am not sure if this is a Sherdog meme at this point but it should be.

Where did I say he's not

 

[TheBulge]

He said before the Gaethje fight that he put on real weight to move up because he was planning to stay at LW and felt good, whereas the previous Dustin fight his coaches called him "muffin top Max" because he put on slop weight to move up quickly for 1 fight.

Offensively he's got more speed and power at LW, but he's always eaten a lot of shots and relied on his chin which seems to be diminishing a little. He was on 8 straight decisions before the Korean Zombie fight with no knockdows in the fights, to now being dropped himself in 3 straight fights, and dropping top strikers in both his last LW fights.

The shots Doostin landed on 2019 Max would have finished 2025 Max, but 2019 Max was just a FW fighting at LW whereas now he's an actual LW. Kind of makes you wish he had been the one to vacate his FW title and taken 6 months to move up permanently when his chin was still prime, though Khabib was champ then and he probably would have gottten ragdolled.

Max fans keep thinking his chin is the problem now when it's the fact that he's still the mist hittable fighter in the sport. We're not talking Chuck Lidell durability here, he can still take plenty unless it's Topuria touching him up. His defense is just horrible.

And against prime Dustin he still loses every time because of that.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Couldn't possibly be that Max got better though.

Max's game has VERY clearly evolved. Look at his spinning back kick for example, he's now worked that into his game and times it well, keeps distance from his opponent and acts as a powerful counter on advancing opponents.

Max's Kicking game has seemingly improved 10-fold, His right body kick was cash money last weekend too

 

[BluntForceTrama]

That's what I think would happen. Most the shit we talk about isnt provable. Its the same with conor. Dustin is a better fighter but conor has a way better career. That's just the way it goes.

Yea but there’s levels

What you wrote is wild

 

[BluntForceTrama]

The actual difference is that Max evolved and now has a strong and diverse kicking game instead of just being a good boxer.

Dustin still just boxes and jumps for guillotines that go nowhere.

Dustin got left behind.

He has been is and always will be a weak ass kick striker.

 

[RockyLockridge]

lol, Max fought Aldo, Volk, Ilia and Conor. Including himself it’s the all time top5 at FW. Max also beat Oliviera, to whom Dustin lost. Max arguably fought even better competition than Dustin. He also KO’ed Gaethje who was coming of a Dustin KO win

Max also beat cub and zombie both of which beat dustin


Max is so much better as a fighter than dustin, Crazy it's even a discussion.

 

[whocares]

In this fight, one fighter (Max) had the strength and physicality advantage, in the other fight it was reversed. The results closely aligned with those factors, nearly on a round for round and punch for punch basis. The 2019 fight would've been more competitive if Max had this frame then, but also Dustin still would've been 6 years younger. Obviously you can't get a definitive answer for hypotheticals like this other than the fight may have been more competitive than either of the ones that actually happened. Or maybe someone gets dropped and finished because MMA.

 

[laleggenda27]

Yes, this version of Max is better than the 2019 version. He has better footwork, more diverse attacks, and more power.

Any version of prime Max vs prime Dustin would be a competitive fight. They both present stylistic problems for each other.

 

[markg171]

He has been is and always will be a weak ass kick striker.

He doesn't need to be a K1 striker for kicks to have elevated his game.

Guy went from being someone who would just punch you 500 times in the face to now hitting you with a spinning back kick out of nowhere in the middle of it.

His kicks also are much better at keeping range, breaking down fighters with body shots, surprising them with the variety of kicks he uses, and setting up for when he does flow into boxing mode.

There's been an obvious improvement to his game and its been since he added kicks.

 

[BluntForceTrama]

He doesn't need to be a K1 striker for kicks to have elevated his game.

Guy went from being someone who would just punch you 500 times in the face to now hitting you with a spinning back kick out of nowhere in the middle of it.

His kicks also are much better at keeping range, breaking down fighters with body shots, surprising them with the variety of kicks he uses, and setting up for when he does flow into boxing mode.

There's been an obvious improvement to his game and its been since he added kicks.

Guess I can go along with that. It is distracting at the very least but a poor kicker opens himself up to counters

I still think that that kicking had less to do with this outcome as much as Max having time to adjust to the weight difference


2019 max was rushed into the fight and didn’t have much time to prepare from a physics perspective He seemed to be getting lifted off his feet with the punches Dustin was throwing last time. This time not so much.

 

[TheGreenMachine]

Fought a former LW champion to earn the title, won undisputed from the goat of his division decisively, rematched won decively again, defended against an undefeated contender won with ease, defended against a former lw champion won with ease.

yeah I genuinely, Have no clue what the hell you're talking about.

The best fighters Dustin fought and beat were Pettis, Gaethje, Alvarez, Holloway x2, Hooker, McGregor x2, Chandler, and BSD. He also faced Khabib, Oliveira, Gaethje again, and Islam. That's a murderers Row of some of the best 155ers ever (excluding Hooker and BSD) and all of them were at their peaks.

Noticed how I never said he won all his fights ( I know, reading is hard), just the competition he's faced was much better than Max, including 2 GOATs at LW in Khabib and Islam. He also beat Max x2, another GOAT.

Meanwhile the best fighters Max beat at 145/155 were Oliveira, Lamas, Pettis, Aldo x2, Ortega, Edgar, Gaethje, and Dustin. He lost to McGregor, Volk, Dustin x2, Topuria. I'd add he didn't face peak Aldo either, and Edgar was already on the decline after several loses.

Put Max against the lineup Dustin faced at LW and its arguable if he would have had as many wins as he does now. I think he could have beaten a lot of them if he moved to LW earlier, but people talking down Dustin need to realize the level of comp he faced at LW. Take Khabib and Islam away, and he likely would have won the undisputed title at some point.

 

[TheGreenMachine]

lol, Max fought Aldo, Volk, Ilia and Conor. Including himself it’s the all time top5 at FW. Max also beat Oliviera, to whom Dustin lost. Max arguably fought even better competition than Dustin. He also KO’ed Gaethje who was coming of a Dustin KO win

See above. Dustin fought tougher competition a weightclass up. Max lost to Volk, Illia, and Conor. Dustin lost to 2 of the best LWs of all time in Khabib and Islam. Take those two away and he would have won the title at least once at LW. Dustin also beat Conor x2 and Max x2 who were Champs at 145. That clearly shows Max and Conor benefitted from the weight cut advantage. Meanwhile, Dustin was fighting a lot of true 170ers.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Meanwhile the best fighters Max beat at 145/155 were Oliveira, Lamas, Pettis, Aldo x2, Ortega, Edgar, Gaethje, and Dustin. He lost to McGregor, Volk, Dustin x2, Topuria. I'd add he didn't face peak Aldo either, and Edgar was already on the decline after several loses.

Put Max against the lineup Dustin faced at LW and its arguable if he would have had as many wins as he does now. I think he could have beaten a lot of them if he moved to LW earlier, but people talking down Dustin need to realize the level of comp he faced at LW. Take Khabib and Islam away, and he likely would have won the undisputed title at some point.

I dont agree with most of this anyhow.

Dustin should have a loss to alverez, Alverez just messed up the finishing sequence and kneed him too early. dustin was in the midst of getting finished. (like a jones hammil)

Aldo was a champion with exactly one loss in a decade to conor. Aldo dominated edgar in the rematch. It was the worst and most decisive loss of edgars career at that point. At that point, Edgars only FW loss was to Aldo. Max beat the breaks off Aldo in his own back yard right after. Ortega also a 10/10 quality title defense. undefeated record, 7-0 in ufc, all finishes

Aldo wasn't peak when max beat him? yeah okay if that's so, then Neither was McGregor, Chandler, Pettis or Alverez when porier beat them. However when he fought peak Conor he got Ko'd in one. when he beat peak max, it was short notice and in a different weight class than maxs usual.

Edgar had several losses? only lost to aldo x2 and ortega; a fight he took in lieu of a title fight he'd already earned.

I'd Add cub swanson(who beat porier) and jeremy stephens to max's list of notable wins. I'd also add Yair, Allen and Katter who were all peak when max fought them.

Porier's best win in his entire career is probably gaethje, and even they are 1-1 Max has that win also. and it's not even max's best win.

ike you say, reading is hard. but Imagining me saying things must be easy, because you'll notice I never said that max won all his fights or dustin won all his fights. I never said anything about that at all actually.

Take those two away and he would have won the title at least once at LW.

you dont know that. He could have easily lost to Ferguson or Diaz. he lost to micheal johnson.

 

[560ti]

you dont know that. He could have easily lost to Ferguson or Diaz. he lost to micheal johnson.

Charles was peaking around that time too so that's another bad style matchup Dustin would have had to avoid

 

[TheGreenMachine]

I dont agree with most of this anyhow.

Dustin should have a loss to alverez, Alverez just messed up the finishing sequence and kneed him too early. dustin was in the midst of getting finished. (like a jones hammil)

Aldo was a champion with exactly one loss in a decade to conor. Aldo dominated edgar in the rematch. It was the worst and most decisive loss of edgars career at that point. At that point, Edgars only FW loss was to Aldo. Max beat the breaks off Aldo in his own back yard right after. Ortega also a 10/10 quality title defense. undefeated record, 7-0 in ufc, all finishes

Aldo wasn't peak when max beat him? yeah okay if that's so, then Neither was McGregor, Chandler, Pettis or Alverez when porier beat them. However when he fought peak Conor he got Ko'd in one. when he beat peak max, it was short notice and in a different weight class than maxs usual.

Aldo lost to Volk, Moraes, and Yan at 135 right after Max. Hard to say he was at his peak considering he lost to bantamweights, especially Moraes (even if he should have gotten the split decision).

Chandler, Pettis, and Alvarez were still very competitive when they lost to Dustin. Even Conor, say what you want about him, wasn't that far removed from the Khabib fight where he was at his peak. He had also beaten Cerrone before fighting Dustin.

Edgar had several losses? only lost to aldo x2 and ortega; a fight he took in lieu of a title fight he'd already earned.

I'd Add cub swanson(who beat porier) and jeremy stephens to max's list of notable wins. I'd also add Yair, Allen and Katter who were all peak when max fought them.

Porier's best win in his entire career is probably gaethje, and even they are 1-1 Max has that win also. and it's not even max's best win.

LOL, convenient how you're leaving MAX x2 out of Dustin's best wins. That right there negates anything you said above. Let's not forget that Max never beat Conor either. That's still a loss on his record. If you're adding fighters like Allen, then you could also add Jim Miller and Bobby Green for Dustin.

ike you say, reading is hard. but Imagining me saying things must be easy, because you'll notice I never said that max won all his fights or dustin won all his fights. I never said anything about that at all actually.

This sentence doesn't even make sense because of the typos/grammar lol. And your reasoning is still wrong about who fought better competition because Dustin fought GOATs across 2 divisions consistently, including 1 weight class higher than Max. That's not even factoring in his 2 wins over Max.

you dont know that. He could have easily lost to Ferguson or Diaz. he lost to micheal johnson.

There was a point where Ferguson was out of the picture and Dustin could have easily contended. And lets be real, Dustin probably would have beaten Diaz considering Diaz could never beat the top of the division with the exception of Conor once.

At the end of the day, win or lose, Dustin fought more hall of famers on paper in what was the most stacked weight class.