Is Max a Better Featherweight than Charles is a Lightweight?

[mkt]

At LW, Charles has a total of 5 losses to Jim Miller, Cerrone, Felder, Islam, Arman and Topuria. I realize the first two fights were long ago, but this thread is simply comparing Charles at LW to Max at FW. He also has a really nice 11-fight win streak, but I'd argue that only the last 3 were elite fighters at the time (Tony Ferguson was shot and had recently surrendered his soul to Gaethje).

 

[TriangleMonkey]

I Charles 2.0 wins teh rematch


Common opponents
Justin/Dustin

Charles cleared both violently

Max beat Justin but it took every single minute and is 1-2 vs Porier

Although Max will in fact snatch opportunistic subs, Charles has more tools to finish fights inside the distance

 

[KoalaBear]

well charles is bigger lol

 

[Hdfi]

Max, and it's not so close.

Max at FW:
3 title defenses
12 top ten wins (FightMatrix):
#7 Cub Swanson
#7 Charles Oliveira
#9 Jeremy Stephens
#9 Ricardo Lamas
#2 Anthony Pettis
#2 Jose Aldo
#2 Jose Aldo
#2 Brian Ortega
#5 Frankie Edgar
#5 Calvin Kattar
#5 Arnold Allen
#10 Chan Sung Jung

Charles at LW:
1 title defense
7 top ten wins (FightMatrix):
#5 Kevin Lee
#4 Tony Ferguson
#6 Michael Chandler
#1 Dustin Poirier
#2 Justin Gaethje
#5 Beneil Dariush
#7 Mateusz Gamrot

 

[Southpoor97]

Both are excellent so I don't want to sound like I'm saying Max is overrated because he isn't but IMHO Charles is better.

Charles faced a variety of different style match-ups and displayed a much more well-rounded skill-set than Max who would have struggled if he faced a wrestler IMO.

The Aldo wins were legit and Aldo was still in his prime but I think that Max was a very bad match-up for Aldo (who always struggled with his cardio) and that this led to a bit of an overreaction with everyone suddenly pushing Max as the new FW GOAT when in reality he, like many others who reach the top, was a defending champion but not actually the best there ever was.

Ortega is a complete fraud and has lost more rounds than he's won in the UFC (even in his wins) and really who else is there that stands out that much who isn't a striker? Lamas? Good fighter but not exactly of the calibre Charles has been facing.

Max has the better chin, is a better volume striker, and has a slight cardio edge (wouldn't matter at 155) but IMO Charles is clearly the better finisher, the better offensive grappler, and has beaten better competition. He has the edge for me

My knee jerk was Max, but upon closer inspection, similar to Covington and Whittaker, his resume doesn’t hold up that great.

However, the Arnold Allen win is what clinches it for me for Max

I mean who has Charles beat that Max hasn’t ? Even though charles beat Dustin and Justin at much harder times

 

[Southpoor97]

Max, and it's not so close.

Max at FW:
3 title defenses
12 top ten wins (FightMatrix):
#7 Cub Swanson
#7 Charles Oliveira
#9 Jeremy Stephens
#9 Ricardo Lamas
#2 Anthony Pettis
#2 Jose Aldo
#2 Jose Aldo
#2 Brian Ortega
#5 Frankie Edgar
#5 Calvin Kattar
#5 Arnold Allen
#10 Chan Sung Jung

Charles at LW:
1 title defense
7 top ten wins (FightMatrix):
#5 Kevin Lee
#4 Tony Ferguson
#6 Michael Chandler
#1 Dustin Poirier
#2 Justin Gaethje
#5 Beneil Dariush
#7 Mateusz Gamrot

I agree max is better but when you list it like that, Charles list of fighters is much better
Also don’t list title defences that’s dumb, we all know oliveirs got screwed and had two defences.

If you remove max run at lw his career is worse. His only good FW wins are Aldo, Allen, and Yair. Everyone else is bad or was washed

 

[usernamee]

I'm having trouble computing this.

Charles has lost to 3 fighters in his last 15 fights:

- Islam (would absolutely SMASH Max)
- Topuria (already smashed Max)
- Arman (controversial split decision loss)

I

Holy shit I haven't thought about that but that's crazy. Still going strong at the elite level.

 

[Hdfi]

I agree max is better but when you list it like that, Charles list of fighters is much better
Also don’t list title defences that’s dumb, we all know oliveirs got screwed and had two defences.

If you remove max run at lw his career is worse. His only good FW wins are Aldo, Allen, and Yair. Everyone else is bad or was washed

Perhaps you have this perception because Oliveira's best victories are relatively recent and concentrated in a shorter period of time. His 2020-2022 run was incredible.
Max has been more consistent over the years and has almost 2x as many top ten wins as Oliveira, even if we take out all of his LW fights.

we all know oliveirs got screwed and had two defences.

True, but...it is what it is.

 

[Rank Squatter]

How many lightweights could a featherweight featherweight if a featherweight could lightweight a lightweight


That's a dam good question