Crime Woman in Minneapolis Executed by ICE Officers; White House Reflexively Hand Waves Murder

Alpha_T83 said:
She didn't try to hit the ICE agent. He illegally leaned over her car and pointed a gun at her, and she had a very human response of deciding to slowly move out of the way. There was no justified use of force. There was no attempt to de-escalate. I doubt they contacted local law enforcement (which is what they are required to do in situations like this). This was manslaughter, pure and simple.
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This is exactly what I said in my other post.. The takes on both sides are laughable..She did not deserve to die in this interaction but she did put herself in the line of fire with her actions and nobody can say what the level of danger the Ice agent felt.

Also, If armed LE agents are yelling at me with guns drawn and telling me to exit the car.. my very human response is to do it not drive towards one.

There was a lot that was wrong here from all parties.
 
JoeyJoeJoeJr said:
Put the hysteria pipe down and settle down. Lol at a coverup. It's fuckin on video man, everyone in the world has seen what happened, what are they covering up?

Why would the FBI need to work with local authorities? They don't need their help.
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Yup. There in the supremacy clause which means local authorities don’t need to be engaged. And why would the Feds engage them, when the police chief, the mayor, and the governor are already calling it murder without an investigation. They already decided, have further politically charged things, and have been actually for months.
 
JoeyJoeJoeJr said:
Put the hysteria pipe down and settle down. Lol at a coverup. It's fuckin on video man, everyone in the world has seen what happened, what are they covering up?

Why would the FBI need to work with local authorities? They don't need their help.
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Because Trump has loyalists in the FBI and if it’s a homicide against federal law broken case they can take it over where anything can be made into federal here bc we have a corrupt system under Trump and it will slowly get worse the longer he’s there .
 
a. Fleeing Subjects: Deadly force shall not be used solely to prevent the escape of a fleeing subject. However, deadly force is authorized to prevent the escape of a fleeing subject where the LEO has a reasonable belief that the subject poses a significant threat of death or serious physical harm to the LEO or others and such force is necessary to prevent escape.

Can you even read bro?

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/f...-05-department-policy-on-the-use-of-force.pdf
 
It's funny to see the difference in reaction from leftists regarding this incident and Ashli Babbit. Babbit did not have a deadly weapon that she attacked law enforcement with and was gunned down, crickets from the left on that one. They don't give a shit about this domestic terrorist, they just want to score political points. They are so engrained in their cult that they can't even see what a joke they have become. These people are not compatible with an orderly society, they are too damn stupid for their own good.
 
nhbbear said:
First and foremost, cops don’t “shoot to kill” they are actually trained to “shoot to stop the threat” but they are absolutely trained to shoot vital targets-torso and if that isn’t available, head or you do a double tap to the chest and one to the head-we used to do that drill all the time. Another reason cops aim center mass is that it is the biggest part of the body and thus the easiest to hit under stress and it is the area that contains the most vital organs that is more likely to put a suspect down. Sure, a headshot is always your best bet to take someone out, but remember the head is a smaller target and thus, harder to hit especially while under duress.
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That's called shooting to kill. You're playing games with semantics and saying "well I'm a headsman and I'm trained to cut off peoples' heads on the chopping block, not to execute them."

nhbbear said:
First, the easy to explain one. That officer doesn’t know if there are any officers behind him that are possibly in the path of her vehicle and he felt he had to act and act immediately or she would be passed him and if there was an officer behind him, he would miss his chance and would never have the time to first check if there is an officer in her path and be able to react.
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You're not allowed to shoot a driver in a VERY slow moving vehicle because "maybe there are other officers behind me". That's not a justified use of deadly force. This is what governs their ability to use deadly force:

"Official policies from the Code of Federal Regulations, Department of Homeland Security, and Department of Justice outline when ICE agents may use deadly force. Key principles guiding the use of force include the requirement that it be objectively reasonable from the perspective of an officer at the scene, the prohibition of deadly force solely for preventing escape unless there's a significant threat of harm, the expectation of de-escalation tactics when feasible, and the requirement for a verbal warning if safe."

If they don't have bodycams, we have to judge solely based off the video we have. And I'm sorry but your interpretation is flawed and not a justification for deadly force. The officer(s) involved might still receive immunity if the case is moved to Federal court (assuming they are charged), but I highly doubt a jury will find this a reasonable use of deadly force. There looks to have been no effort to de-escalate the situation. In fact it was quite the opposite: They immediately yelled at her, ordered her out of the car, and pointed their weapons at her.

nhbbear said:
Second, there are so many studies that try to gauge an officer’s reaction time and how long it takes the human brain to first, detect a threat, second you process that information and label it as a threat, third you make decision to act-and fourth-you act, ie draw gun if not out already and shoot.

Now, after making the decision to shoot and you actually shoot, now you have to go back down the ladder when it’s time to stop shooting. You have to perceive that the threat is passed, process that information, tell your body to stop pulling the trigger which is a trained and untrained reflex at that point, then the “stop shooting” signal has to travel back down the body to the hands.
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Those perception–reaction-time studies may exist, but they are not a standalone legal defense to federal manslaughter. If a court or jury finds there was no legally justified use of deadly force, “human reaction time” does not excuse an unlawful killing. It can at most provide context for what the officer perceived, not eliminate criminal liability.

What you are referencing is real, but it is not a viable defense for an unlawful killing. Instead this is what often protects police officers from facing 1st or 2nd degree murder charges, but instead facing manslaughter charges.
 
KOByFootStomp said:
It's funny to see the difference in reaction from leftists regarding this incident and Ashli Babbit. Babbit did not have a deadly weapon that she attacked law enforcement with and was gunned down, crickets from the left on that one. They don't give a shit about this domestic terrorist, they just want to score political points. They are so engrained in their cult that they can't even see what a joke they have become. These people are not compatible with an orderly society, they are too damn stupid for their own good.
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So why do you think ashli was climbing through the window? What do you think her goal was? Do you think she had an intent?
 
Deaths Head said:
Because Trump has loyalists in the FBI and if it’s a homicide against federal law broken case they can take it over where anything can be made into federal here bc we have a corrupt system under Trump and it will slowly get worse the longer he’s there .
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oh yeah everything just gets worse and more corrupt under trump because.... reasons
 
KOByFootStomp said:
It's funny to see the difference in reaction from leftists regarding this incident and Ashli Babbit. Babbit did not have a deadly weapon that she attacked law enforcement with and was gunned down, crickets from the left on that one. They don't give a shit about this domestic terrorist, they just want to score political points. They are so engrained in their cult that they can't even see what a joke they have become. These people are not compatible with an orderly society, they are too damn stupid for their own good.
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She had a backpack on and knew she was being told to stop moving forward. Nobody knew what anybody had on them or their intention.

Anybody comparing these two instances as anything close to the same is a brain dead moron.
 
Hellowhosthat said:
She definitely accelerated but I don't think her intention was to hit the officer and getting glanced by a car speeding away is not the same as being mowed down directly. Her intention was to flee. Even if he'd put himself in the situation and someone wants to excuse the first shot I don't think how someone can do the mental gymnastics to justify the subsequent shots made through the side window.
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This is really it.

The other agent approached her aggressively, tried to open her door, told her to "get out of the fucking car," and had his hand on her steering wheel and door frame as she started going forward. In fact, when the first shot is fired, that guy STILL had a hand on the car.

She's definitely trying to flee.

Even Rittenhouse had somewhat of a plausible case. These agents do not.
 
Hog-train said:
If the officer wasn't in the path of the vehicle, then how did he get hit? The video from the new angle shows him getting hit by the car and being pushed backward. And then to the side.
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What new angle video? Are you talking about the edited video on 380p that is sped up?

What about the high definition video with sound that shows exactly what happens frame by frame? What injuries did he sustain you think the ER will show?
 
Natural Order said:
a. Fleeing Subjects: Deadly force shall not be used solely to prevent the escape of a fleeing subject. However, deadly force is authorized to prevent the escape of a fleeing subject where the LEO has a reasonable belief that the subject poses a significant threat of death or serious physical harm to the LEO or others and such force is necessary to prevent escape.

Can you even read bro?

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/f...-05-department-policy-on-the-use-of-force.pdf
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Why wouldn’t he feel she is a threat to other agents or other people in general? She could have fled and the immediately plowed into others, as she clearly is willing to disregard traffic laws? She literally just hit him. Why wouldn’t he think she may hit others, which could easily cause serious harm or death.

She is fleeing arrest. Unhinged people fleeing arrest are some of the most dangerous and hit pedestrians and other drivers, often causing death and serious harm.

Seems your post gives good justification for the shot
 
cottagecheesefan said:
Why wouldn’t he feel she is a threat to other agents or other people in general? She could have fled and the immediately plowed into others, as she clearly is willing to disregard traffic laws? She literally just hit him. Why wouldn’t he think she may hit others, which could easily cause serious harm or death.

She is fleeing arrest. Unhinged people fleeing arrest are some of the most dangerous and hit pedestrians and other drivers, often causing death and serious harm.

Seems your post gives good justification for the shot
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God damn you're an idiot. They had no jurisdiction to stop her for anything traffic related.
 
KOByFootStomp said:
It's funny to see the difference in reaction from leftists regarding this incident and Ashli Babbit. Babbit did not have a deadly weapon that she attacked law enforcement with and was gunned down, crickets from the left on that one. They don't give a shit about this domestic terrorist, they just want to score political points. They are so engrained in their cult that they can't even see what a joke they have become. These people are not compatible with an orderly society, they are too damn stupid for their own good.
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The problem wasn’t Babbit it would have been the mob trying to get in she was also warned to back off trying to enter a building unlawfully can you explain how breaking in is the same as getting attacked sitting in your car ? She also had a knife in her jacket with a mob outside and two windows were broke one on purpose the other forcefully, make it make sense .Lol
 
Possum Jenkins said:
This is really it.

The other agent approached her aggressively, tried to open her door, told her to "get out of the fucking car," and had his hand on her steering wheel and door frame as she started going forward. In fact, when the first shot is fired, that guy STILL had a hand on the car.

She's definitely trying to flee.

Even Rittenhouse had somewhat of a plausible case. These agents do not.
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reminds me of the massey murder.
 
b34stmode said:
What new angle video? Are you talking about the edited video on 380p that is sped up?

What about the high definition video with sound that shows exactly what happens frame by frame? What injuries did he sustain you think the ER will show?
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Not sped up at all. 5 seconds in. She clearly hit him with the car.

 
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