With all the free content now,how good could untrained guys get just with instructionals?

[GoatArtemLobov]

A gym is good for two things:
1) Having many training partners, of different levels, bodytypes etc.
2) Having an instructor who can correct you live.

But as far as pure instruction goes, youtube+instructionals>your instructor. You can literally have content from dozens of world class instructors online, one single instructor, however good he may be, can't match that. Imagine you have all of Lach's and Danaher/Ryan's instructionals (to take the three best sellers on bjjfanatics) and the instructional of Bernardo for complete beginners. No fucking instructor can match all that alone, now imagine if you also add all the free content you have on youtube or instructionals from other guys...
So I would say that a group of newbies who aren't too dumb and who have enough money to afford quality instructionals could get pretty far without an instructor. Of course they wouldn't become world champs, because they are going to develop bad habits and noone will be there to correct them... but good enough. I also think that having to become you own instructor can be somehow beneficial since it forces you to actively look for information and not only randomly execute what an instructor would show you.
As @JewBear said (I am glad to hear a blackbelt say that) past a certain level (let's say blue to purple belt) nobody knows better than you which areas you suck at, which things will never work for you etc. So you have to be the one getting instructionals and drilling the shit out of them with one of your buddies. And if your instructor can put the cherry on the cake by making corrections etc. and thus preventing you from developping bad habits, that's awesome, but you have to bake the cake first.

 

[nefti]

I mean that's a great argument you have there that thesis will win you an award.

I maintain that yes having a in person coach is the best way to learn, however beating up a partner and learning from a video isn't the worse way to learn . Can you be a word champ? Probably not can you beat up most people after a while? Yea probably.

Would a crappler beat someone who never crappled? Probably. Would be beat anyone with say 1 year of jr high wrestling? Probably not.

If you crappled with your friends for 1 year, how much worse would you be compared to being at a school?

Way worse, to the point you would regret crappling by yourself for so long. We have all seen this. Several posters here have around a decade of experience and have met self taught crapplers several times.

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

We all like to pretend that martials arts are some magical thing that you can only learn from a master, when in reality most of those masters where probably a guy who trained alot.

We have patent laws because people can reverse engineer pharmaceuticals but you will try to convince me that i can't get good at grappling from watching a dvd and trying it on my buddies.

Yes having someone there to point out your flaws is a the best option but it's not the only option.

Good points.
Martial arts aren't an exact science, they figured out things by trying them, it's not like maths for instance.
Of course it's indispensable to have access to what people have figured out over the centuries, because otherwise you would have to figure out all by yourself from the beginning, but we are talking about someone who has all the internet content right?
It's all about being intelligent and not necessarily about credentials and having an instructor, as a matter of fact Danaher, who is arguably the best instructor in the world, has 0 competition credentials and didn't have any instructors anymore since purple belt (of course Renzo and Serra were looking up from time to time but they weren't there all the time). Same thing could be said for Zahabi.

being intelligent+instructionals+good instructor>all of course but I'm fed up with instructors who are about all that "master" bullshit and who tell you that watching instructionals is useless... Actually if they do it's either because they are complete morons (what an idiot do you have to be to tell your student that watching Marcelo demonstrating the guillotine is a waste of time?) or because they want to make you believe they are the only ones who can teach you something... In both cases, look for a new school.

 

[Lubaolong]

I hear this guy didn't even roll. He just watched some instructionals and then became the head instructor at the Gracie Academy.

 

[TheMaster]

I hear this guy didn't even roll. He just watched some instructionals and then became the head instructor at the Gracie Academy.

You're referencing this :

"When Hélio moved in with Carlos in 1927, aged 14, doctors told him he should not practise ju-jitsu owing to his frail physique. Instead Hélio watched and learnt. When Carlos was late to teach a student two years later, Hélio offered to fill in. The student insisted Hélio continue to train him. Hélio was now an instructor."

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...acie-martial-arts-little-big-man-8943533.html

So actually true altho Helio obviously tested and refined it later.


You would have to roll at least with your buds. The question is, is having video slow-mo re-play from multiple angles from multiple world champions of multiple positions and multiple escapes at your fingertips, enough to teach athletic noobs the fundamentals and much more get them to a decent level?
If they are diligent and not idiots, then it could get them potentially quite far.

Could they have won UFC 1 with just training like that?
They could have maybe met Royce or Ken in the finals, then lost to either since those guys had legit grappling experience.
But against clueless other non grapplers they shouldn't have had much trouble.

If they did open mats once in 6 months they would get hands on feedback that would go very far as well.

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

A gym is good for two things:
1) Having many training partners, of different levels, bodytypes etc.
2) Having an instructor who can correct you live.

But as far as pure instruction goes, youtube+instructionals>your instructor. You can literally have content from dozens of world class instructors online, one single instructor, however good he may be, can't match that. Imagine you have all of Lach's and Danaher/Ryan's instructionals (to take the three best sellers on bjjfanatics) and the instructional of Bernardo for complete beginners. No fucking instructor can match all that alone, now imagine if you also add all the free content you have on youtube or instructionals from other guys...

I agree with your 2 points.
But, sometimes, if your instructor is very competent and is active, well rounded and open to new ideas, they can actually enhance the instructionals. Imagine a white or blue belt watching youtube/Lachlan/Danaher DVDS. they probably wouldn't fully comprehend wha the instructors explanations and would take a while to implement to their game. They get the instruction, and listen to the explanations, but may have a hard time putting them into practice. Imagine a very competent black belt watching the DVDs and then relaying and teaching the information to their students. This is provided the instructor is competent in the specific area of that game.

I remember watching instructionals as a white/blue belt, and then rewatching the same insturctuonals as a 4 year black belt and viewing them in a completely different perspective