With all the free content now,how good could untrained guys get just with instructionals?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by TheMaster, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. TheMaster Take The Road To Reality

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    The amount and quality of material, even on free YT channels is vast now.
    We all know if u already train it can level you up,or of you used to train grappling frequently it can do the same.

    But what about some guys who never attended a legit academy or school but just rolled following instructionals?
    How good could they really get?
     
  2. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    It all depends on them, I'd say.
     
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  3. nefti Silver Belt

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    Grappling is not only about techniques, its about experience and timing. jts much easier to improve when you train with people with experience/better than you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
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  4. judoka loca Training to eventually grapple a bear

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    You could probably get to about four stripe white belt level if you really paid attention and drilled/rolled with a partner a lot. But as soon as you stepped in an actual gym with real coaching you would find tons and tons of bad habits and everyone would kick your ass.
     
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  5. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    I mean, I think things like competing regularly, going to open mats or possibly having some training partners that are good, all those things are x-factors in this equation. Are you assuming hypothetically that everyone involved in this scenario has basically no experience?
     
  6. TheMaster Take The Road To Reality

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    Lets say some guys rolling in a garage all with no experience.
    Maybe attending and open mat once in a long while but having no formal real life teacher or being a part of any academy.
     
  7. GordoBarraBJJ Titanium Belt

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    Ask Evan Tanner . . . oh yeah.
     
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  8. shunyata Red Belt

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    Not that good. The moves need to be drilled and then applied in live rolling to work.
     
  9. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    Are they competing? That would make a big difference. Most of my training wasn't really formal and I was never really part of an academy, but I did train with a lot of very good guys and was able to roll with them, question them or get their input on things I was working on. I mean, there are really more gray areas in training between formal and informal than I think some people acknowledge. Is going to someone's academy or dojo after hours to roll with that person "formal"?

    Is it "formal" training when people get together to roll and all of those people are experienced and credentialed in some way? I wouldn't say I ever "formally" trained in sambo, for example, but a sambo world champion was a huge influence on me. Me and the guy who runs 3rd Law BJJ in Florida used to roll all the time together, sometimes for hours, but I wouldn't exactly call it "formal." We didn't have a class structure and it wasn't like either of us were instructing the other, even if we learned from rolling with each other.

    Anyway, I think the guys could go far depending on their approach and whether or not they are testing themselves against people outside their circle. And also depending how driven they are and how willingly they are to look for and address potential holes in their games. I think if they are willing to watch, re-watch and really dig through hours and hours of grappling footage, aside from just whatever instructionals are popular at the time and really willing to put in the hours on the mat, then basically the sky is the limit, especially if they are competing regularly.
     
  10. TheJewBear Blue Belt

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    I'm a new BJJ black belt and here's my POV. Self-directed training is superior to traditional class training. The student, after having learned the basics (shrimping, positional hierarchy, basic movements) can identify his/her deficiencies better than anyone else. Only the student is present in every roll he/she is in. Only the student knows where they keep getting crushed or having a hard time.

    So how does it help the student if the gym they go to has 2-4 different instructors throughout the week, all teaching different things, NONE of which identify the student's deficient areas?

    I've really been a fan of directing my own training for the past year via BJJFanatics instructionals. My escapes sucked, so I've been studying Lachlan Giles escapes series and now my escapes are WAY better. I had zero back attack game so I downloaded Danaher's back attack system directly into my stupid brain by drilling and practicing with a friends 2x/week for 2 months.

    That's how I believe people can get good at BJJ faster: directing their own training, filling in the gaps and improving their weakest areas, consistently, all year-long.
     
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  11. yetanother Black Belt

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    There is plenty of super high level instructions online which is superior to your average coach (who will often just show you sub par moves without personalized instructions or a lot of correction).
    Learning stuff by just rolling with people who haven't grappled before will be a lot harder.
    Two college wrestlers could learn to berimbolo of the internet, but grappling someone untrained is a different matter.
     
  12. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    Yes, you wold need a couple of training partners, you’ll never be any good unless you train with good people, good people normally are found at gyms.
     
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  13. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    i agree, I’m a firm believe that these days, a blue belt with some experience has to take care of their own progress, having a good coach in the gym is still important, but as you said, no one knows better than then student what part of their grappling need to get better at any given time.
     
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  14. Whitebeltatlife White Belt

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    So, lets say you had a garage, 3 other guys and rolled 4 times per week - spent 45 mins drilling then 30 mins sparring? I think you could get quite good in all honesty. You'd have to start on the fundamentals and you may have some big holes in your game but overall I think it would be ok, depending on how you used the instructionals.

    There was a story online years ago about a few European guys who did this. They'd done this for about 5 years in their poor country, turned up to a legit gym with no belt and the instructor gave them a blue based on their skill. To my knowledge this is the only real example which is similar to your situation. I know the og bjj guys did it in garages etc back in the day but I'm on about a modern example.
     
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  15. mataleaos Brown Belt

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    Damnnn Cold blooded. That was fucked up but I did chuckle lol
     
  16. mataleaos Brown Belt

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    Honestly not that good compared to anyone that actually trains but against someone that doesn’t know anything probably enough to own them a bit
     
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  17. Quebec Nick Purple Belt

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    If you roll, everything is possible. even if you roll with only a couple of guys, rolling makes you better.

    I have maybe half of my go to techniques that I have got straight from instructionnals, I barely have drilled them with partners and I have been able to do them in live sparring, put them in my game and use them all the time.

    Most of my attacks when I pass the guard are on the Danaher kimura DVD,

    all my back attacks are from the straight jacket system in the Danaher DVD

    All of my sweeps and back take in half guard and RDLR are from Lachlan Giles DVD, some of the sweeps were shown in class but the concepts and the way to get there are all from Lachlan's half guar DVD

    My main guard passes are from Bernado Faria's overunder pass DVD (which we never even drilled in class) the other pass is the smash pass that I took all the details with Lachlan and Buchecha DVDs. We saw the smash a couple of times in class but the entries and a lot of the details are from the DVDs.

    What I think is a 100% from my coach is my butterfly guard, X guard, leglock defense and attacks from armbar position.

    A lot of techniques, if you have a good memory and if you're good with movement can be done straight in sparring, then you'll be able to perfect them. Even more if they are close to something you already do. Like if you already do X guard, if you watch a DVD on X guard maybe you will catch a new sweep and it's gonna be easy to test it in sparring.
     
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  18. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    He means people that roll with each other but use DVD's, Youtube, etc. for their technical instruction rather than a physical instructor.
     
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  19. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    On this subject, I feel like high school wrestlers who are struggling have a huge opportunity, since they have all the technique of guys like John Smith at their disposal. If I had the 'How Low Can You Go?' DVD in high school, I really think it would have made a huuuge difference. My coach--and he is one of America's best ever--always said that watching high-level guys is one of the best ways to improve. The thing is that it used to not be so easy to do that. Nowadays, we have footage from as early as the 1930's.
     
  20. mataleaos Brown Belt

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    Agh okay.

    Not sure if I know the answer but they can definitely get better than 5 years ago.
     
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