Wing chun is a bad martial art.

[pimpstrocity]

I guess if I was practicing an outdated martial art for an extensive period of time, I would defend it to the death too so that I can convince myself those years were not wasted.

you cant really blame them, I mean why learn to fight when you can just do ridiculous forms and those dumb ass chain punchs... Its not even that they take it, if you do a martial art and enjoy it more power to you just dont act like its something its not.

 

[D.R.H.]

And not all martial arts are equally good.There are good training methods and bad training methods.



Of course, even a untrained guy has a chance.



Is it the same chances?I don't think so.

Lets consider a hypothetical scenario:

A decent wrestler that has trained wrestling for 5 years VS a WC guy that has trained for 5 years and is decent by WC standards.Both of them are of the same build and weight.They fight on the street with no other people present.No weapons are available.

Out of 100, how many fights would you give to the Chunner?

P.S. I know this is a gross simplification of a violent scenario that you can get into.There are many variables in real life, and you can never simulate all those variables in training.MMA is the closest thing to a 1 on 1 street fight.

Also, I would like to hear your opinion on that video I posted earlier.

In your scenario I'd give each guy 50 out of a hundred. In a real life fight scenario, it's just as likely the Wing Chun guy punches him the throat right off the bat as it is that the wrestler slams his head on the concrete before he can react. That's how real fights work, one person attacks and the other person usually isn't ready for it, fight over. Granted it may not be over in the very first move, but usually of the innitiator doesn't let up, the outcome is never in doubt. It's not like they're staring each other down and ready to go like in a sport match. Your first statement is a little confused. You're treating "art," and "training method," as if they are the same thing. They're not. You can take all the arts you mentioned earlier, and use bad training methods and end up with guys that suck out loud. The reverse is also true, you can take all the arts you think suck out loud, give them to a guy with good training methods, and he'll beat some ass. Which video did you post, refresh my memory?

 

[Nefron]

In your scenario I'd give each guy 50 out of a hundred. In a real life fight scenario

Wow...I would give him 5.

Your first statement is a little confused. You're treating "art," and "training method," as if they are the same thing. They're not.

I know that.Guys that train with aliveness are going to better no matter what art they do.The problem is, all those deadly strikes that WC is comprised of can't be trained in a alive manner.

Which video did you post, refresh my memory?

So far this is the only video we have of two Wing Chun masters in a fight.

 

[D.R.H.]

Wow...I would give him 5.




I know that.Guys that train with aliveness are going to better no matter what art they do.The problem is, all those deadly strikes that WC is comprised of can't be trained in a alive manner.



So far this is the only video we have of two Wing Chun masters in a fight.

I disagree about being able to train the strikes. If you can train boxing, Muy Thai, Karate, etc with enough force for practical application, what makes you think you can't do the same with Wing Chun strikes? Punches and kicks are punches and kicks are they not? What specifically are you asking about the video, and do you have any background info on it?

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

Holy shit! I'm so taking this style now. It well mad help out with my clubbing skills, Thats some breakin shit right there.

 

[Nefron]

I disagree about being able to train the strikes. If you can train boxing, Muy Thai, Karate, etc with enough force for practical application, what makes you think you can't do the same with Wing Chun strikes? Punches and kicks are punches and kicks are they not?

You can train "regular" punches and kicks with enough force.You can't train those "deadly" moves with enough force.Eye gouges, neck shots etc.

What specifically are you asking about the video, and do you have any background info on it?

That is a fight between Emin Boztepe and William Cheung both Wing Chun masters.There was some disagreement between the two which culminated during some seminar in Germany where this fight occured.

They are both Wing Chun masters, but the fight looks something like MMA:
Clinch->takedown->GnP

 

[zinndawg]

In your scenario I'd give each guy 50 out of a hundred. In a real life fight scenario, it's just as likely the Wing Chun guy punches him the throat right off the bat as it is that the wrestler slams his head on the concrete before he can react. That's how real fights work, one person attacks and the other person usually isn't ready for it, fight over. Granted it may not be over in the very first move, but usually of the innitiator doesn't let up, the outcome is never in doubt. It's not like they're staring each other down and ready to go like in a sport match. Your first statement is a little confused. You're treating "art," and "training method," as if they are the same thing. They're not. You can take all the arts you mentioned earlier, and use bad training methods and end up with guys that suck out loud. The reverse is also true, you can take all the arts you think suck out loud, give them to a guy with good training methods, and he'll beat some ass. Which video did you post, refresh my memory?

I know you're a mod and everything, but good god man, wtf are the talking about? You think after the first time the wrestler took down the wang chun guy or w/e the hell it is, he wouldn't do that every single fight? Takedowns are instinctive for wrestlers, and if something works, they're going to do it over and over. obviously a street fight is different than training in a gym, and things do happen, but i'd be reluctant to give the wing chun guy more than a few wins in that case scenario. If anything, the more they fight, the easier the takedowns are going to become as the wrestler discovers the other guys weaknesses. 50/50? wow...

 

[D.R.H.]

You can train "regular" punches and kicks with enough force.You can't train those "deadly" moves with enough force.Eye gouges, neck shots etc.



That is a fight between Emin Boztepe and William Cheung both Wing Chun masters.There was some disagreement between the two which culminated during some seminar in Germany where this fight occured.

They are both Wing Chun masters, but the fight looks something like MMA:
Clinch->takedown->GnP

Throat shots are just a normal strike aimed a little different, I fail to see how you can't pull them off if you've trained any type of normal striking, assuming of course you practiced aiming at all. So what exactly are you asking about the video?

 

[D.R.H.]

I know you're a mod and everything, but good god man, wtf are the talking about? You think after the first time the wrestler took down the wang chun guy or w/e the hell it is, he wouldn't do that every single fight? Takedowns are instinctive for wrestlers, and if something works, they're going to do it over and over. obviously a street fight is different than training in a gym, and things do happen, but i'd be reluctant to give the wing chun guy more than a few wins in that case scenario. If anything, the more they fight, the easier the takedowns are going to become as the wrestler discovers the other guys weaknesses. 50/50? wow...

Your talking about the same two people fighting over and over again, I'm talking about 100 hypothetical scenarios between two random people with the skillsets described. That's not the same thing.

 

[mjw1]

These are a bit more modified for MMA but still wing chun/ving tsun


YouTube - Ving Tsun and M.M.A. (freefight technics)

YouTube - Ving Tsun and M.M.A. (freefight technics) 2

 

[zinndawg]

Your talking about the same two people fighting over and over again, I'm talking about 100 hypothetical scenarios between two random people with the skillsets described. That's not the same thing.

regardless, it's not happening man. Everyone has their opinion, and I appreciate that, but no matter how open minded I am, I don't see your scenario going down the way you think it would. I grew up with friends who all wrestled through middle school, high school and college and I've seen them get into fights over the years. They all instinctively would go for the immediate takedown and get it. From there, it was just a matter of time before they pounded the other guy into submission. granted, they weren't fighting masters of wing chun, but i haven't seen anything from those guys that resembled intelligent takedown defense.

 

[Nefron]

Throat shots are just a normal strike aimed a little different, I fail to see how you can't pull them off if you've trained any type of normal striking, assuming of course you practiced aiming at all.

Since the only argument about the lack of Wing Chun in MMA is the ruleset, we can conclude that boxers, MT guys etc. are much better at "normal" striking.So if it so easy to adapt that kind of striking to hit those vital targets it means that any Boxer etc. can use them.

Since boxers can already kick WC fighters asses in MMA using normal striking, what do you think they can do in the absence of rules.

So what exactly are you asking about the video?

Those were 2 WC masters fighting in a street fight, no rules.There were no vital point strikes.There was hardy any standup striking at all.If a Wing Chun master, with no extensive grappling training rushes in and takes another WC master down, and hold him down, what could a Judo guy do to him?

The even better question is why does a WC master uses something other than WC in a real fight?

 

[pimpstrocity]

These are a bit more modified for MMA but still wing chun/ving tsun


YouTube - Ving Tsun and M.M.A. (freefight technics)

YouTube - Ving Tsun and M.M.A. (freefight technics) 2

Yea, well I guess we should all keep wing chun in mind in case we are ever doing a demo at a TKD school or something right? please...

 

[pimpstrocity]

Those were 2 WC masters fighting in a street fight, no rules.There were no vital point strikes.There was hardy any standup striking at all.If a Wing Chun master, with no extensive grappling training rushes in and takes another WC master down, and hold him down, what could a Judo guy do to him?

The even better question is why does a WC master uses something other than WC in a real fight?

exactly, the only thing wing chun is made to fight against is someone else doing wing chun, otherwise their bullshit isn't gonna work

 

[Boof]

one of my best mates is a 3rd degree blackbelt in wing tsun and he's off his head, super fast and is not scared to fuck you up, his defense is awesome and he's hard to hit. it's not a bad martial art, you're just bad at it. Fail more.

 

[pimpstrocity]

one of my best mates is a 3rd degree blackbelt in wing tsun and he's off his head, super fast and is not scared to fuck you up, his defense is awesome and he's hard to hit. it's not a bad martial art, you're just bad at it. Fail more.

being bad at wing chun is basically being bad at being bad, it turns out being good

 

[Nefron]

one of my best mates is a 3rd degree blackbelt in wing tsun and he's off his head, super fast and is not scared to fuck you up, his defense is awesome and he's hard to hit. it's not a bad martial art, you're just bad at it. Fail more.

This is only anecdotal evidence.That like saying "I can fuck your friend up".I have nothing to back it up.Its on the same level as someone coming to this thread and saying that WC sucks.Next time your friends fucks someone up, you should videotape it.

I'm enjoying the discussion with D.R.H, please don't troll this thread up.Don't post if you don't have anything of substance to bring to the table.

 

[DirtyCrabcakes]

one of my best mates is a 3rd degree blackbelt in wing tsun and he's off his head, super fast and is not scared to fuck you up, his defense is awesome and he's hard to hit. it's not a bad martial art, you're just bad at it. Fail more.

As far as I am aware, there is no such thing as 3rd degree BB in Wing Chun, perhaps I am wrong though.

Anyway... have any of the naysayers considered picking up the phone and calling their local WC school and telling the resident master that you think their art is crap? I am sure they would be more than willing to demostrate that it is not. If they refuse, then I would assume they have no faith in their skills.

 

[411dd]

nvmd not worth it.

 

[D.R.H.]

regardless, it's not happening man. Everyone has their opinion, and I appreciate that, but no matter how open minded I am, I don't see your scenario going down the way you think it would. I grew up with friends who all wrestled through middle school, high school and college and I've seen them get into fights over the years. They all instinctively would go for the immediate takedown and get it. From there, it was just a matter of time before they pounded the other guy into submission. granted, they weren't fighting masters of wing chun, but i haven't seen anything from those guys that resembled intelligent takedown defense.

Again, your assuming the wrestler is actually ready for a fight. In a real life street scenario, one person isn't usually ready, despite whatever shit they may be talking. If the wrestler is the one ready, and initiates the fight then by all means your scenario is correct. The wrestler would do his best Matt Hughes impersonation and ragdoll the guy into oblivion. By the same token though, if he's the one not ready, it's equally likely the Wing Chun is going to channel his inner Vitor Belfort and battering ram punch the guy into a heap. That's a real world street fight scenario, not the unlikely case were both guys are squared up and ready to throw down.