Wing chun is a bad martial art.

[D.R.H.]

Wing Chun specializes in the most uncommon range of fighting, the deadly trapping range.Trapping range is a transitional range between striking range and clinching range, the two stable ranges.

Trapping range is broken by either fighter moving in a step, or moving away.It doesn't give you control over your opponents position, and the window of opportunity to execute a technique in that range is very small, so focusing on it is bullshit.

I agree, complete focus on trapping is next to useless unless you can find a way to keep an opponent in that spot, which is slightly harder to do on anyone with half a brain than winning the lottery while simultaneously banging twin playmates. That said however, being good at trapping can keep an adversary from transitioning from striking to clinching/grappling and the reverse. That's a useful skill, as is the parrying/counter punching they spend a lot of time on, and reason enough to add it to ones repertoire. Thus, there's no need to bash the entire system since their skillset is useful to forming a complete whole just like the arts focusing on the other 3 ranges.

 

[411dd]

Judgin an art, by matching together two people(who are not well-trained in their arts), is not as effective as it could be... don't you agree?

Si.

 

[Nefron]

Fighting at trapping range is almost non existent.Trapping range is in no way equal to other, stable ranges.

I bash Wing Chun because of the way it is marketed: the deadly self defence martial art.If it was being marketed as something you could find useful if you are already proficient in other martial arts, a bag of tricks that can be useful, I would have no problem with it.

Although you may find useful individual techniques in WC to add to your arsenal, WC philosophy is based on speculations and some pseudo science and does not hold water in the real world.Sadly, its practitioners are some of the most blinded people I have seen.

 

[KrazyBee**]

Fighting at trapping range is almost non existent.Trapping range is in no way equal to other, stable ranges.

I bash Wing Chun because of the way it is marketed: the deadly self defence martial art.If it was being marketed as something you could find useful if you are already proficient in other martial arts, a bag of tricks that can be useful, I would have no problem with it.

Although you may find useful individual techniques in WC to add to your arsenal, WC philosophy is based on speculations and some pseudo science and does not hold water in the real world.Sadly, its practitioners are some of the most blinded people I have seen.

Did you see Fedor - Sylvia?

Or Fedor - Zulu?

Most sticky hands stuff is just an exercise. no1 expects to stand there nowadays now everyone wants to tackle everyone else.

Hand trapping and feeling has its place in mma - hell all luiz cane does is hand trap, left straight.

 

[Nefron]

Now you are going to talk about Fedor fighting in the trapping range.Damn.

 

[KrazyBee**]

Now you are going to talk about Fedor fighting in the trapping range.Damn.

Haha no im saying that hand trapping is really effective in mma - i know cos i've used it in sparring against some good guys. Anderson does it all the time and so does machida. Just because it doesnt look like a fruity form doesnt mean it isnt hand trapping.

Do you EVER see a boxer hit someone like he hits the speedbag? Every martial art has its rituals.

 

[Nefron]

Machida has pulled off some crazy shit with his parries.I don't really get your point.It doesn't make WC any less shitty that it is.

 

[411dd]

If you are a 110lb woman, and a 200+lb brute of a man grabs one or both of your arms(a likely sceneario in a self defense situation), you are in trapping range, he has trapped you, and you better know what to do, and you had better kick him in the balls or gouge his eyes, and run, because that is your only chance other than some sort of weapon gun/pepperspray/taser etc.

 

[KrazyBee**]

Machida has pulled off some crazy shit with his parries.I don't really get your point.It doesn't make WC any less shitty that it is.

My point is - its easy to look at a wing chun guy doing trapping practice and say "fighting doesnt happen at that range" but equally I can look at a boxer on the speedbag and say "fuck me... he doesnt actually punch like that does he?"

They're both rituals or drills to improve an aspect of fighting, no1 says that a fight is going to take place entirely at trapping range because they'll either move forward or move back, its just about getting the hands out of the way as quick as possible.

Plus remember the historical context of Wing Chun - it was developed by an abbott for his nuns to prevent robbery, rape and so on - you think what sort of distance a rapist is gonna wanna be from you...

Also back then methods of fighting were much different from today - the gracies clinch and takedown approach is what everyone wants to do now in street fights but back then it would likely be just swinging like it was 10 years ago, hence the straight line punches and the fighting dirty.

Historical context plays a large role - remember these people wanted to deal with muggers and rapists not trained boxers and so on.


Like every martial art there are good teachers and BS teachers - the longer an art has been around the more watered down BS teachers there are. Look at Karate, it had a bad rep cos of all the McDojos and then Machida - a proper JKA karateka comes out and starts whoopin on people.

I never like to write off a martial art till i've trained with someone whos great at it - Hell i made that mistake 5 years ago when i saw this "gracie jiu jitsu" and thought "omg how gay is that... they're just oily men rubbing on each other"

 

[Nefron]

I already said that Wing Chun MAY be useful against an untrained punk, but so can BJJ, Judo, Boxing etc.

 

[D.R.H.]

Fighting at trapping range is almost non existent.Trapping range is in no way equal to other, stable ranges.

I bash Wing Chun because of the way it is marketed: the deadly self defence martial art.If it was being marketed as something you could find useful if you are already proficient in other martial arts, a bag of tricks that can be useful, I would have no problem with it.

Although you may find useful individual techniques in WC to add to your arsenal, WC philosophy is based on speculations and some pseudo science and does not hold water in the real world.Sadly, its practitioners are some of the most blinded people I have seen.

You could say this about every tma out there, why only single out the Wing Chun guys?

 

[411dd]

You could say this about every tma out there, why only single out the Wing Chun guys?

Because he had an argument with me the other day and was bashing WC, in the Aikido thread, and now wants to shat on WC some more. Check it out. Trolling behavior at its finest.

 

[Nefron]

Because it sucks.What is a TMA to you?

Also, I didn't start this thread.

 

[D.R.H.]

Because it sucks.What is a TMA to you?

Also, I didn't start this thread.

Any art that focuses on 1 or 2 ranges that has some sort of historical lineage (ie not some Shim Shin Do created in the last 10 years). I realized you didn't start the thread, but you did direct your anti Wing Chun retoric my way.

 

[KrazyBee**]

You could say this about every tma out there, why only single out the Wing Chun guys?

I think guys who train "mma" get a little arrogant about this, hell i trained karate (PROPER shotokan karate, not a Mcdojo) for 12 years before i started training at Krazy Bee and a lot of guys I sparred had a very differnet sense of timing - they were stepping in looking to fire combos and so on and i was just staying on the outside and launching hand traps followed by punches, body kicks and so on.

Another one that MMA guys dont seem to get is when you move backward until they're foot is just about to land then diving in with a right hand lead to the face.

MMA guys tend not to be great at closing the distance effectively, cant speak for pure boxers but like in that Wing Chun vid up there a lot of TMAs focus on closing the distance quickly and hitting with everything (a la rashad machida or silva machida). MMA is already becoming one of those arts that if you say you practice you seem to think you can handle yourself. A LOT of guys are selling BS under the name MMA just cos the can - theres no qualification to check

 

[Nefron]

I practice sport Ju Jitsu and Kickboxing.

 

[D.R.H.]

I think guys who train "mma" get a little arrogant about this, hell i trained karate (PROPER shotokan karate, not a Mcdojo) for 12 years before i started training at Krazy Bee and a lot of guys I sparred had a very differnet sense of timing - they were stepping in looking to fire combos and so on and i was just staying on the outside and launching hand traps followed by punches, body kicks and so on.

Another one that MMA guys dont seem to get is when you move backward until they're foot is just about to land then diving in with a right hand lead to the face.

MMA guys tend not to be great at closing the distance effectively, cant speak for pure boxers but like in that Wing Chun vid up there a lot of TMAs focus on closing the distance quickly and hitting with everything (a la rashad machida or silva machida). MMA is already becoming one of those arts that if you say you practice you seem to think you can handle yourself. A LOT of guys are selling BS under the name MMA just cos the can - theres no qualification to check

True enough. I can think of at least a dozen McDojos here local that have simply changed the name to MMA and still run their schools the same way they did before. Marketing is wonderful.

 

[Nefron]

Any art that focuses on 1 or 2 ranges that has some sort of historical lineage (ie not some Shim Shin Do created in the last 10 years). I realized you didn't start the thread, but you did direct your anti Wing Chun retoric my way.

Judo has a historical lineage and its full of win.Muay Thai also.Some karate styles also.

 

[BoAlambis]

I already said that Wing Chun MAY be useful against an untrained punk, but so can BJJ, Judo, Boxing etc.

The effectiveness of an art, should not be gauged by it's effectiveness while in the boundaries of a ring and referree. The effectiveness of this art is in the ability to close the gap, and avoid a takedown... It was, and is effective for what it is INTENDED to be used for.

How about we say that Boxing isn't effective because you don't train kicks? Or that BJJ is ineffective because you don't practice standup? What about Judo, keep a Judo guy at a distance, and see how well he takes it.

 

[D.R.H.]

Judo has a historical lineage and its full of win.Muay Thai also.Some karate styles also.

They also have just as many weaknesses as Wing Chun though? It just seems your being rather selective as a hater rather than any sort of honest analysis of the art. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding how you can acknowledge some flawed styles for their strengths, yet trash others for having the same deficiencies? Maybe I'm just getting old though, you do sound young.