Wilder on the heavy bag

[Seano]

Yeah, having terrific natural talent!

I can't figure out how he can punch so hard while having his right foot staying in the bucket like that.

Its that length. Some guys just get crazy leverage with a good height and reach advantage.

 

[Shoemaker]

Yeah, having terrific natural talent!

I can't figure out how he can punch so hard while having his right foot staying in the bucket like that.

He'd probably get more power and have better balance if he brought that foot closer to his hip.

I understand the criticism of Wilder's technique but I do think it's overstated. There have been plenty of guys (Sergio Martinez comes to mind) who don't have textbook technique but are still good fighters. Seems to be guys who can let their athleticism carry them. Granted, they lose that once they age, but that doesn't mean they weren't good fighters when they had it.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Bullshit. You mention Joshua, who has he fought that's so much better than who Wilder has fought?

Povetkin is a better opponent than anyone Joshua has fought. Its not Wilder's fault that fight didn't happen.

As far as I know, a Wilder/Wlad fight has never been negotiated either and Wilder is on track to fight the winner of those two.

You guys clearly have a preference for a certain fighter and that's fine, we all do, but that doesn't mean you can pretend everyone else is shit when there's no evidence of anything like that.

Joshua is fighting at wilders level in half the fights. Joshua is fighting wlad in under 20 fights. Are you really using Joshua to justify why wilder is fighting mugs, as the wbc champ after nearly 40 fights?

The guy holds the most prestigious belt, yet his team are keeping him from not only fighting the best guys, but pretty much anyone that is a challenge or ranked anywhere near the top ten. Letting other fighters unify the belts and hoping for a winner takes all at the end doesn't sit well with many fans either, and rightly so

 

[clashnat]

It's not only the amount of fights...Wilder turned pro over 8 fucking years ago. Joshua turned pro 3 years ago....imagine Joshua fighting cab drivers for 5 more years.

Seano, man up and tell the truth now. Tell the real story.

 

[Seano]

Joshua is fighting at wilders level in half the fights. Joshua is fighting wlad in under 20 fights. Are you really using Joshua to justify why wilder is fighting mugs, as the wbc champ after nearly 40 fights?

Yes. Wilder wasn't in any hurry to be ranked early on.Who said it was a race? He was learning and getting paid and if you ask me, it seems to have worked. Look at where both guys are, when they started fighting higher level guys etc then they are right on track with each other. Joshua got there quicker, but I don't see how that makes him superior when they are fighting the same level of competition.

The guy holds the most prestigious belt, yet his team are keeping him from not only fighting the best guys, but pretty much anyone that is a challenge or ranked anywhere near the top ten. Letting other fighters unify the belts and hoping for a winner takes all at the end doesn't sit well with many fans either, and rightly so

Again, he won that title in the ring, has defended it and was scheduled to fight a legitimate top 5 HW and ended up having to fight Arreola because Povetkin was caught cheating.

And furthermore- I respect Joshua, so I'm not going to turn this into a who's better argument. I like both guys and I think both fighters are being moved intelligently and have fought increasingly better competition in recent years. I see no need to criticize either.

That said, I think people might be making a little too much out of Joshua fighting Wlad and I'm saying that thinking that its a pretty good step up fight to start a new era but Wlad looked like garbage in his last fight and has been inactive for a while. Its not like Joshua is getting in there with prime Tyson.

 

[stuff jones]

Bullshit. You mention Joshua, who has he fought that's so much better than who Wilder has fought?

Povetkin is a better opponent than anyone Joshua has fought. Its not Wilder's fault that fight didn't happen.

As far as I know, a Wilder/Wlad fight has never been negotiated either and Wilder is on track to fight the winner of those two.

You guys clearly have a preference for a certain fighter and that's fine, we all do, but that doesn't mean you can pretend everyone else is shit when there's no evidence of anything like that.

You keep on raising Povetkin's name as though that one attempted fight gives him a pass for all the other bums he fights as a 30+ year old HW champion.

 

[Seano]

It's not only the amount of fights...Wilder turned pro over 8 fucking years ago. Joshua turned pro 3 years ago....imagine Joshua fighting cab drivers for 5 more years.

Seano, man up and tell the truth now. Tell the real story.

I just responded to this. I wasn't looking at their pro runs as a race. I'm looking at who they are fighting right now. Joshua was a more polished amateur, he didn't need as much work as Wilder.

 

[Shoemaker]

Joshua is fighting at wilders level in half the fights. Joshua is fighting wlad in under 20 fights. Are you really using Joshua to justify why wilder is fighting mugs, as the wbc champ after nearly 40 fights?

Why does him having 40 fights matter? Lomachenko had over 400 in the amateurs yet people still ooooo-and-ahhh at him winning the championship with "few" fights. Wilder had less than 50 amateur fights total and got started boxing late. He spent more time maturing in the professional ranks than the amateurs, sure, but I don't see why that's a reason to trash the guy. I think you're just looking for reasons not to like Wilder.

And it's not like he hasn't been trying to make better fights. He had a great fight lined up in Povetkin but Alex had to go and foul that up. And the guys he's fought since becoming WBC champion have a combined record of 168-11. Hardly "mugs" though admittedly not elite level.


Like I said before, some of the criticism leveled against Wilder is warranted, but it's certainly being overstated in this thread.

 

[Seano]

You keep on raising Povetkin's name as though that one attempted fight gives him a pass for all the other bums he fights as a 30+ year old HW champion.

Pretty much the same guys Joshua is fighting, and people think he's the cat's ass. Joshua's NEXT fight is against a better guy than anyone either he or Wilder has fought so far but it still hasn't happened and I think it'd be fair to see if they make Wilder/Joshua after Joshua beats Wlad before claiming one is doing so much more than the other.

 

[stuff jones]

Pretty much the same guys Joshua is fighting, and people think he's the cat's ass. Joshua's NEXT fight is against a better guy than anyone either he or Wilder has fought so far but it still hasn't happened and I think it'd be fair to see if they make Wilder/Joshua after Joshua beats Wlad before claiming one is doing so much more than the other.

I don't think Joshua is the cat's ass. I think its the British fanbase that overhypes their fighters. Also Joshua is younger with far less experience. Compare their resumes at the same stages of their careers and Joshua's looks much better.

 

[stuff jones]

And I actualy like Wilder and thinks he gets underrated a little.

 

[clashnat]

What type of guy are you? You started comparing Wilder and Joshua, now you're pretending that others make a race out of it.

The Povetkin fight didn't happen. You can't give Wilder credit for nothing, lol.

And on top you have the nerves to relativize Joshuas up coming fight by bringing up prime Tyson out of nowhere. Wladimir Klitschko IS a big step up no matter how you turn it.

 

[Seano]

What type of guy are you? You started comparing Wilder and Joshua, now you're pretending that others make a race out of it.

The Povetkin fight didn't happen. You can't give Wilder credit for nothing, lol.

And on top you have the nerves to relativize Joshuas up coming fight by bringing up prime Tyson out of nowhere. Wladimir Klitschko IS a big step up no matter how you turn it.

This really isn't that complicated. I'm comparing them based on who they are actually fighting. Not who turned pro first. Wilder is one of the elites guys in the HW division and he's fighting the same level of opposition that everyone else in the division is.

 

[Shoemaker]

The Povetkin fight didn't happen. You can't give Wilder credit for nothing, lol.

If the criticism is that Wilder isn't trying to make good fights, you absolutely can give him credit for trying to make that fight. No one is giving him credit for fighting it, but you are trying to say that Wilder is a duck. He's trying to fight guys, it's not his fault Povetkin got popped.

 

[DaveDave]

Summation for those without a dog in the fight:

—Wilder wanting to fight Povetkin was good (& Povetkin fucking it up doesn't change that).

—No, Joshua ain't done that much more than Wilder (but he has done it in less time & looked far less spazzy doing it—Josh at least doesn't fall over his own feet).

—Some people will argue with you no matter what they say.

—Wawrzyk is a fucking abysmal opponent no matter which way you slice it & no matter how contrarian you might feel like being. His 33-1 might be the most padded in the top 100 heavies (take your pick which ranking scheme). This is a man whose best win is one from this year, against the fearsome Marcin Rekowski, who isn't even one of the top five heavyweights in Poland.

(Rekowski, BTW, the fight before he fought Wawrzyk, had been KTFO'd by Nagy Aguilera (though, to be fair, Aguilera took three more rounds to do it. But he got there first & flattened Rekowski). Wilder is literally fighting someone who on paper has proved himself the calibre of Nagy fuckin' Aguilera, & some are still saying "Oh but he's not thaaaaat bad...")

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Why does him having 40 fights matter? Lomachenko had over 400 in the amateurs yet people still ooooo-and-ahhh at him winning the championship with "few" fights. Wilder had less than 50 amateur fights total and got started boxing late. He spent more time maturing in the professional ranks than the amateurs, sure, but I don't see why that's a reason to trash the guy. I think you're just looking for reasons not to like Wilder.

And it's not like he hasn't been trying to make better fights. He had a great fight lined up in Povetkin but Alex had to go and foul that up. And the guys he's fought since becoming WBC champion have a combined record of 168-11. Hardly "mugs" though admittedly not elite level.


Like I said before, some of the criticism leveled against Wilder is warranted, but it's certainly being overstated in this thread.

Yeah I agree with that. But let's be honest, the guys he is fighting are mugs. I find it frustrating that a guy as fearsome as wilder isn't getting in the mix with the better guys. As fans we are all missing out! As a champion you should be fighting the best out there, not hand picking opponents from the top 30. But he is far from the only one doing this, it's not a new thing and us fans shouldn't accept it, but we do?

 

[Shoemaker]

Yeah I agree with that. But let's be honest, the guys he is fighting are mugs. I find it frustrating that a guy as fearsome as wilder isn't getting in the mix with the better guys. As fans we are all missing out! As a champion you should be fighting the best out there, not hand picking opponents from the top 30. But he is far from the only one doing this, it's not a new thing and us fans shouldn't accept it, but we do?

To be fair I don't think I've been dishonest. I've never said that Wilder didn't deserve criticism. I just think you guys are piling on with the irrelevant to make it look even worse.

He definitely hasn't been fighting top opposition for sure. But he doesn't have a ton of options. Let's say the Wawrzyk (I think I butchered that) fight got cancelled tomorrow. Wilder could conceivably make a fight with Ortiz, Povetkin (who is going to have his own negotiation struggles from here on), and Pulev. So probably Ortiz and Pulev are the two fights he could make that fans would deem acceptable. And I'd love to see either of those two myself.

Everyone else at HW is either spoken for or qualifies as a "mug". Browne is untested, Martin doesn't appear to be anything special. It doesn't leave Wilder with as many options to negotiate. He does need to start pursuing those fights more aggressively though. They were trying to get the hype building with Fury before Tyson broke down. I think part of the problem is Wilder being brought along a bit slow, but the other issue is that at any given time, the quantity of acceptable and attainable opposition is pretty small.

They were trying to build up with Fury, Fury crashed. They tried to fight Povetkin, Povetkin get's busted (then and then again) for PEDs.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

To be fair I don't think I've been dishonest. I've never said that Wilder didn't deserve criticism. I just think you guys are piling on with the irrelevant to make it look even worse.

He definitely hasn't been fighting top opposition for sure. But he doesn't have a ton of options. Let's say the Wawrzyk (I think I butchered that) fight got cancelled tomorrow. Wilder could conceivably make a fight with Ortiz, Povetkin (who is going to have his own negotiation struggles from here on), and Pulev. So probably Ortiz and Pulev are the two fights he could make that fans would deem acceptable. And I'd love to see either of those two myself.

Everyone else at HW is either spoken for or qualifies as a "mug". Browne is untested, Martin doesn't appear to be anything special. It doesn't leave Wilder with as many options to negotiate. He does need to start pursuing those fights more aggressively though. They were trying to get the hype building with Fury before Tyson broke down. I think part of the problem is Wilder being brought along a bit slow, but the other issue is that at any given time, the quantity of acceptable and attainable opposition is pretty small.

They were trying to build up with Fury, Fury crashed. They tried to fight Povetkin, Povetkin get's busted (then and then again) for PEDs.

Its a turn of phrase mate, Im not saying you're being dishonest.
What I mean is fighting guys with impressive records doesn't necessarilly mean shit. Look at David Hayes last 2 opponents! 100% records but he deserved the shit he took as they are no where near his level. The problem is fans don't see any intent from Wilders team, because there has been none. There are far better guys that he can fight than who he has chosen to fight. Im not going to give him lots of credit for taking the Povetkin fight, it was a mandatory so he had no choice. A champion is there to defend the belt after all! He also seems to want the unification shot once someone has unified the belts. As per my previous post I have an issue with this and so should the other guys that are prepared to fight each other.

He has talent, athletisism and nasty power but in reality no one knows how good he is because he's not been tested. Not because he's that good, but because he's fighting guys that will never get anywhere near a championship belt. Pulev or Ortiz would definitely show us where this fella really is

 

[Confucamus]

I couldn't watch more than 10 seconds of that. I love watching pros on the heavy bag, but I want to hear the hits. Not some god awful shit music like that.

 

[mozfonky]

i see a little Mark Breland in his style, Breland should be a good, good teacher. I just can't get over that zellenoff shit, he's not going to win me over until he does something big.