"Why We Did It" by Rachel Maddow

[Dolomite]

Make sure you guys remember to vote Hillary in 2016.

“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program.

He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001.

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.

Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.”

 

[ruthless robert]

I find it truly sad that 99.9999999% of all people can say that the war was for oil. Yet, most of the same people will say only tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist believe 9/11 was an inside job.

9/11 was the only way that we could do what we did for 2 main reasons

1. Americans would justify and rally behind the war

2. The rest of the world wouldn't team up and jump on America if we used "terrorism" as a cover and yelled "feel sorry for us, we were attacked"

Of course 9/11 was an inside job. All the middle eastern countries were wanting to go to a gold standard and sell their oil in their own gold backed currency and not U.S. dollars.

This would crush all superpower economies and empower the middle east to the sole superpower.

What would happen if the U.S. couldn't get oil to make gas at the same rate that we use? People wouldn't get to work and prices would skyrocket. We would see $40 per gallon of gas and that's when they do have it.

Simple supply and demand, everyone just goes to the gas station and gets gas and drives around and goes to work. Now cut our inbound supply to 15% of what we normally get coming in and you literally have the majority of people without gas in their cars, no driving to work, no driving to the store, no products or goods getting to stores. Life as we know it would come to a halt overnight.

If the dollar were to lose it's spot as the reserve currency and the U.S. has to trade in it's dollars to buy into a gold backed middle eastern currency our standard of living would literally go back 100 years. We would all be riding horses again.

.

 

[pinger]

I find it truly sad that 99.9999999% of all people can say that the war was for oil. Yet, most of the same people will say only tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist believe 9/11 was an inside job.

9/11 was the only way that we could do what we did for 2 main reasons

1. Americans would justify and rally behind the war

2. The rest of the world wouldn't team up and jump on America if we used "terrorism" as a cover and yelled "feel sorry for us, we were attacked"

Of course 9/11 was an inside job. All the middle eastern countries were wanting to go to a gold standard and sell their oil in their own gold backed currency and not U.S. dollars.

This would crush all superpower economies and empower the middle east to the sole superpower.

What would happen if the U.S. couldn't get oil to make gas at the same rate that we use? People wouldn't get to work and prices would skyrocket. We would see $40 per gallon of gas and that's when they do have it.

Simple supply and demand, everyone just goes to the gas station and gets gas and drives around and goes to work. Now cut our inbound supply to 15% of what we normally get coming in and you literally have the majority of people without gas in their cars, no driving to work, no driving to the store, no products or goods getting to stores. Life as we know it would come to a halt overnight.

If the dollar were to lose it's spot as the reserve currency and the U.S. has to trade in it's dollars to buy into a gold backed middle eastern currency our standard of living would literally go back 100 years. We would all be riding horses again.

.

 

[ruthless robert]

it's true

.

 

[Gervinho]

I find it truly sad that 99.9999999% of all people can say that the war was for oil. Yet, most of the same people will say only tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist believe 9/11 was an inside job.

9/11 was the only way that we could do what we did for 2 main reasons

1. Americans would justify and rally behind the war

2. The rest of the world wouldn't team up and jump on America if we used "terrorism" as a cover and yelled "feel sorry for us, we were attacked"

Of course 9/11 was an inside job. All the middle eastern countries were wanting to go to a gold standard and sell their oil in their own gold backed currency and not U.S. dollars.

This would crush all superpower economies and empower the middle east to the sole superpower.

What would happen if the U.S. couldn't get oil to make gas at the same rate that we use? People wouldn't get to work and prices would skyrocket. We would see $40 per gallon of gas and that's when they do have it.

Simple supply and demand, everyone just goes to the gas station and gets gas and drives around and goes to work. Now cut our inbound supply to 15% of what we normally get coming in and you literally have the majority of people without gas in their cars, no driving to work, no driving to the store, no products or goods getting to stores. Life as we know it would come to a halt overnight.

If the dollar were to lose it's spot as the reserve currency and the U.S. has to trade in it's dollars to buy into a gold backed middle eastern currency our standard of living would literally go back 100 years. We would all be riding horses again.

.

I honestly would not be one bit surprised if 9/11 was an inside job, We live in a very ugly world. I think a far more likely scenario would be they knew about the terrorist plans and let it happen as it would open the door for things like the invasion. Deep down we dont like to think our own people would sell us to further their goals. But throughout history man has done horrible things to his fellow man to further his goals, so why it would come as a shock to anyone is beyond me.

 

[Happy Boy]

Did the people who are saying it couldn't possibly be for oil actually watch the video?

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Did the people who are saying it couldn't possibly be for oil actually watch the video?

Of course not. Its much easier to believe the bullshit.

 

[Islam Imamate]

When I was active and I heard about us going into Iraq, I actually said to my co-workers (who were the same rank as I) "What in the blue He//?!?!" Right then I knew it was a money-grab. I saw the whole WMD parade and I thought it was shenanigans.

Yet you had people sending Sean Penn death threats because he met with Saddam Hussein. It was total a BS job on the administrations' part.

Did they also send Rumsfeld threats because he met with Saddam?

As a former troop of this country, I can say wholeheartedly that people who willingly sign up for the war machine knowing they can be used for inhumane and shady policies are culpable.

I agree with that tbh. Obviously the leaders should bear most of the blame but the "I was only following orders" argument didn't work before so I don't see why it works now.

 

[Hog-train]

Someone please educate me on how this war was about oil. Because last time I checked... we DIDN'T get any.

Its not like we brought over a bunch of empty containers with us to fill them up with oil and transport them back to the US.

Although a pair of boots I had worn in Iraq had some dried oil and dirt on the bottom of them when I brought them back. So therefore I deeply apologize to the American community for the 1/4 ounce of oil I smuggled from Iraq.

It's not only about oil.

It's about Iraqi "reconstruction." Companies like Haliburton and Bechtel made billions.

 

[kintana]

As already mentioned by several posters. Most people outside the US knew the Iraqi war was about oil. I lived in the US when Bush declared war on a Iraq. Most of my classmates and teachers thought oil was one of the main reasons. However quite a few believed it was because of WMDs.

Iraq was a big stain in american foreign policy. And it caused america to lose credibility. Now one will take the US's stance on russia attacking Ukraine on made up charges seriously because they will just say "what about Iraq".

 

[Zankou]

My main problem is that people don't really think through what it means to be "for oil."

The war was undoubtedly fought "for oil" in the sense that oil was the primary interest of the United States. But what, exactly, does that mean?

There's a conception that the U.S. was just going to "take" the oil, or seize "lucrative oil contracts." Both arguments are, in my opinion, fucktarded. The US was never going to "take" the oil, and the implication that the war was entirely about something which the U.S. then didn't actually do is just too stupid for words. People who maintain this argument usually claim the U.S. was going to take the oil "except" something stopped it ("the public found out etc"), which is such a foolish argument I can't be bothered to address it.

Second, and slightly more sophisticated, is that the war was about oil contracts. Two blatant problems with that argument. First, oil exploitation contracts are incredibly unprofitable relative to the cost of the war. It would have been like investing $1000 to make a $1. Second, the bidding was open, and French and Brits and Chinese profited as much or more than the Americans. This theory thus requires some explanation about why the US embarked on a ludicrously unprofitable war, and the answer is usually some epic corruption story -- Halliburton doesn't care, it will spend $2 trillion in taxpayer money to make $20 billion for itself, muhahahah!

Again, super-stupid.

Far and away the strongest oil explanations are those which view the situation as an *oil supply threat* that the US set out to resolve. The international economy is critically dependent upon a continuing supply of oil, largely Middle Eastern in supply. Saddam's invasion of Kuwait demonstrated how vulnerable that supply was to political intrigues in the Middle East. It was crucial to establish control over the oil production system to get constant supply to the international markets. This ensures that the price is reasonable and the global economy is not hammered by oil shocks. Thus the key was never stealing oil, or making money on contracts. It was putting in place a system of political control that ensures the Middle East "plays nice" with the United States on oil production policy.

Put very short, the war was all about converting Iraq into Saudi Arabia. We don't steal Saudi Arabia's oil, and we don't make appreciable money on Saudi oil contracts. Yet because it works with us on ensuring the total global oil supply is workable, Saudi Arabia is arguably our most important ally -- or was, until fracking made the US oil independent. IMO, the Iraq War would never have happened after the rise of fracking made the U.S. so much less dependent on continuous ME oil supply.

 

[Zankou]

Did the people who are saying it couldn't possibly be for oil actually watch the video?

I think there's a fundamental disconnect, which is that the side saying it was "for oil" is often confused about what that means. If it's said that the war was an "oil grab," in the sense of appropriating oil and oil contracts, then the video doesn't change my perception of that -- it remains a terrible explanation. If it's said that the war was focused on controlling oil supply, then I'd agree.

I also think there's a fundamental misperception amongst non-Americans that Americans continue to believe the war was a justified strike needed to defuse WMDs. That's very much a minority view among U.S. citizens nowadays, and "WMDs" is generally considered a punchline. Yet I find that many non-Americans are under the misimpression that things are as they were back ten years ago, and that Americans have never heard the startling news that the Iraq war was about oil.

 

[Gregster]

Here's what I find sad:

That the Internet's capacity to disseminate information with unprecedented speed to millions of people worldwide has been used to clutter public discourse with intellectual static such as:

** Idiotic theories about 9/11 being an "inside job" so breathtakingly stupid that it makes the guys who came up with "The Freemasons are poisoning the wells!" appear to be deep-thinkers by comparison.

** The habit of throwing around affirmations about "what everyone (or everyone else) knew" about 9/11 and the US foreign policy responses that resulted as if it was true then and/or validated by history.

** That 9/11 gave America a blank check to cut loose over the entire world (well, two countries) unopposed.

No international opposition to invading Iraq and Afghanistan...nope! No public protests against US policy...nada!

Remember how nobody said that even if terrorism was wrong, that 9/11 was a predictable/understandable result of US policy, and fighting back would make it worse? [CONT'D]

 

[Satsui Ryu]

I always was against the war, but I gave the benefit of the doubt and thought the government really believed they were doing this because of the reasons they gave. But as was said before there does seem to be some kind of economic interest in any conflict.

What I find most fascinating is how much the last decade changed right wing politics.

 

[OldGoat]

Sometimes you need to remind the world you have a strong pimp hand.

 

[SMillard]

I remember telling a guy that "if the evidence is false then Bush and his cronies would have some serious explaining to do" boy was I wrong. The fact that it was a fabricated war doesn't bother me as much as the fact that no one was ever held accountable. Everyone treated it like a some colossal mulligan.

 

[ultramanhyata]

I remember telling a guy that "if the evidence is false then Bush and his cronies would have some serious explaining to do" boy was I wrong. The fact that it was a fabricated war doesn't bother me as much as the fact that no one was ever held accountable. Everyone treated it like a some colossal mulligan.

We have a tier in the US, both in business and in government, that, once reached, no matter how poor the personal, managerial performance, allows the failed incompetent who has attained it the privilege of ejecting with a golden parachute.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

It's not only about oil.

It's about Iraqi "reconstruction." Companies like Haliburton and Bechtel made billions.

This.

 

[Hollywood Nicky]

Someone please educate me on how this war was about oil. Because last time I checked... we DIDN'T get any.

Its not like we brought over a bunch of empty containers with us to fill them up with oil and transport them back to the US.

Although a pair of boots I had worn in Iraq had some dried oil and dirt on the bottom of them when I brought them back. So therefore I deeply apologize to the American community for the 1/4 ounce of oil I smuggled from Iraq.

we tried to sign 40 year contracts with the iraqis for their oil, and al sistani stepped in and said if we did it he would take away shiite support and we would be in an even worse civil war. so we did in fact try to take the oil, they just stopped us.

 

[Gregster]

[CONT'D]
** Then there's the whole "Mid East conquest/oil-grab" thing.

Well, we *did* knock over a brutal, fatuous, belligerent, genocidal maniac who was due to be succeeded one of his two sons who were even worse than he was; and then there were the religious fundies in Afghanistan who weren't even a government, unless we want to legitimize governance by random beatings and weekly public amputations.

They have been replaced by freely-elected governments. Of course, the people "knew" what the real deal was said we'd install compliant puppets; I don't recall if busting our balls on everything from private security contractors to our troop withdrawl timetable was part of the plan.

Ditto getting totally sandbagged on Iraqi oil rights.

I must say, as wars of conquest and plunder go, invading a country and then spending billions rehabbing it and paving the way for the election of a government that tells the conquerering entity to go pound sand up its ass is nothing if not original.