Why only $15 an hour?

[nostradumbass]

It's also just obvious. Like I said before, plenty of small businesses handle wages between 10-15 per hour just fine. It's really the fast food industry that's dragging ass on this, and they have the least amount of reasons to pay jack shit.

Yeah, because they pay above minimum wage to attract better employees. If the MW gets raised, they have to either raise their wages even higher or they lose their attraction for workers because they're now doing the bare minimum.

Then of course the cost of everything gets raised as well so the higher dollar figure isn't going to get you much more than you had before.

Universal basic income is coming bros. It's already being tested in the US and in a couple other countries.

Oh God, I hope not. A society full of people with no responsibility, nowhere to be, and no financial consequences for anything would devolve into Sodom and Gomorrah pretty quickly.

For those that want a simple argument for raising the minimum age........





The last time income inequality hit this level, we had the great depression.

This isn't a question of what job should be worth what. This is a question of what leads to economic collapse.

Economic inequality isn't a problem at all. It's poverty that's the problem, and whether or not someone else has a lot is irrelevant. If everyone is equally poor, that's equal but still doesn't help anyone.

 

[NewGuardBjj]

Yeah, because they pay above minimum wage to attract better employees. If the MW gets raised, they have to either raise their wages even higher or they lose their attraction for workers because they're now doing the bare minimum.

The same pool of people will be looking for jobs in the same market regardless. People need to eat so they'll go to work. Employers still have hiring options. Things will adapt.

 

[Rational Poster]

You act like within the next 2 days everything will be fully automated. Stop jumping the gun. It's going that way, but hasn't gotten there yet. Relax.

Production, transport, and service industries will be getting partially or fully automated within the next 20-50 years. It's going to snowball once it starts hitting the open market.

 

[Bald1]

You guys... are... serious?

Nope. It's an interesting concept, but A) now is not the time, B) not sure the time will ever be right. I've had a job since 13 years of age so I'm not a fan of helping those who won't help themselves.

But the times they are a changing. More automation coupled with a growing population means an ever shrinking job market. Especially for unskilled young people starting out. How do we handle that situation?

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

People always apply wal-mart employer views to America as a whole. The vast majority of business in the US are small, with pretty unsubstantial net profit -- upping middle wage to 15 dollars is going to force these business (mcdonald's locations included because they are mostly franchises) to lay off workers.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Nope. It's an interesting concept, but A) now is not the time, B) not sure the time will ever be right. I've had a job since 13 years of age so I'm not a fan of helping those who won't help themselves.

But the times they are a changing. More automation coupled with a growing population means an ever shrinking job market. Especially for unskilled young people starting out. How do we handle that situation?

Import less mouths to feed.

 

[Bald1]

Import less mouths to feed.

Just slowing population growth isn't going to cut it, I don't think. Besides, bringing in the "right mouths" is a good thing, as they tend to be educated and established in their fields.

Like I said in a nother post, I haven't thought this through so don't have my position nailed down.

 

[nostradumbass]

The same pool of people will be looking for jobs in the same market regardless. People need to eat so they'll go to work. Employers still have hiring options. Things will adapt.

And what happens to the people who have worked their way up to few more dollars/hour? Do they get bumped up as well or are they now making the same as the new people with no work experience?

 

[Philo-Publius]

That seems low to me. Why not $20 or $25? Think about it, if your owned a small business would you rather pay an unskilled, uneducated, possibly illegal alien $15 or pay a college educated American $20? We can actually price unskilled illegal workers out of the market and employ Americans. Win-win.

This statement makes no sense for a number of reasons. There aren't enough "skilled" workers to fill all of those low wage positions (e.g. McDonald's teller). But, even if there were, paying workers more to fill those positions means your big mac would cost $5 instead of $3. Cheap labor strengthens an economy.

Also, high school students need to get jobs, but they don't need to be making $15/hour.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Just slowing population growth isn't going to cut it, I don't think. Besides, bringing in the "right mouths" is a good thing, as they tend to be educated and established in their fields.

Like I said in a nother post, I haven't thought this through so don't have my position nailed down.

1. Slowing population will help, along with other factors if combined
2. Right mouths? We have plenty of right mouths here to feed. We need to get the economy electric again, improve our education systems, make teachers happier to teach and start draining the liberal university swamp of hateful rhetoric that has plagued it for too long

Nobody really has a position nailed down. But we don't need our population balooning anymore. We are resource stricken and certain parts of the country are desperate for water. What happens in 10 years if this current drought continues? PAIN. We don't need more illegal imports. Come here legally? Fine. If you're caught here illegally; databased and Spartan kicked the fuck out. Sanctuary cities, GTFO!

 

[GhostZ06]

That seems low to me. Why not $20 or $25? Think about it, if your owned a small business would you rather pay an unskilled, uneducated, possibly illegal alien $15 or pay a college educated American $20? We can actually price unskilled illegal workers out of the market and employ Americans. Win-win.

lmao

 

[Bald1]

1. Slowing population will help, along with other factors if combined
2. Right mouths? We have plenty of right mouths here to feed. We need to get the economy electric again, improve our education systems, make teachers happier to teach and start draining the liberal university swamp of hateful rhetoric that has plagued it for too long

Nobody really has a position nailed down. But we don't need our population balooning anymore. We are resource stricken and certain parts of the country are desperate for water. What happens in 10 years if this current drought continues? PAIN. We don't need more illegal imports. Come here legally? Fine. If you're caught here illegally; databased and Spartan kicked the fuck out. Sanctuary cities, GTFO!

1. Agreed.

2. Right mouths feed themselves. Yeah, a government needs to put their people first, but if there's a demand that's not being filled by citizens I see nothing wrong with bringing in qualifed immigrants.

I've argued against the need for constant population growth in other threads, so you have me pegged wrong.

As for illegals? Huh? Have you been drinking? I never mentioned them, and if you want to know my opinions on open borders just read any of the threads on the European migrant crisis. I'm as pro border control as you'll find.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

1. Agreed.

2. Right mouths feed themselves. Yeah, a government needs to put their people first, but if there's a demand that's not being filled by citizens I see nothing wrong with bringing in qualifed immigrants.

I've argued against the need for constant population growth in other threads, so you have me pegged wrong.

As for illegals? Huh? Have you been drinking? I never mentioned them, and if you want to know my opinions on open borders just read any of the threads on the European migrant crisis. I'm as pro border control as you'll find.

Hehe yeah I only brought illegals up because unfortunately they are a addition to our problems. It sucks that we just never have everything perfect where we could bring in people from countries that don't care about them and turn them into productive, happy Americans. But that isn't the case anymore... only reason I brought it up is because it is part of the problem we are talking about.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Yeah, because they pay above minimum wage to attract better employees. If the MW gets raised, they have to either raise their wages even higher or they lose their attraction for workers because they're now doing the bare minimum.

Then of course the cost of everything gets raised as well so the higher dollar figure isn't going to get you much more than you had before.



Oh God, I hope not. A society full of people with no responsibility, nowhere to be, and no financial consequences for anything would devolve into Sodom and Gomorrah pretty quickly.



Economic inequality isn't a problem at all. It's poverty that's the problem, and whether or not someone else has a lot is irrelevant. If everyone is equally poor, that's equal but still doesn't help anyone.

No one is arguing that wealth inequality itself is a problem, in fact, it is a function of capitalism.

What is being argued is that their is a point of no return on income inequality.

Water would be a good analogy to this. Everyone should drink water, you need it to survive, but you can drink so much water that it will kill you. If I tell you not to drink so much water it kills you, I am not saying that you shouldn't drink any water.

 

[woodguyatl]

That seems low to me. Why not $20 or $25? Think about it, if your owned a small business would you rather pay an unskilled, uneducated, possibly illegal alien $15 or pay a college educated American $20? We can actually price unskilled illegal workers out of the market and employ Americans. Win-win.

The "unskilled" thing is a fallacy. At least in many blue collar industries, especially the building trades, the illegals are highly skilled. For instance, the "illegal" guy who does stucco for me is 35 years old and has been doing stucco every since he was 10 in Guatemala where the vast majority of construction is stucco.

Also, I have yet to find a American deep relief carver to handle the more traditional altars and arks I do for religious groups.

Also, I have tried to hire college educated Americans many times. Guess who has a hard time showing up on time at 5:00 in the morning (4:00 in the summer) even to work a desk job? College educated Americans or immigrants?

 

[Bald1]

Hehe yeah I only brought illegals up because unfortunately they are a addition to our problems. It sucks that we just never have everything perfect where we could bring in people from countries that don't care about them and turn them into productive, happy Americans. But that isn't the case anymore... only reason I brought it up is because it is part of the problem we are talking about.

Ok, got it. Maybe I need to start drinking.

The thing is, in the context of population growth we don't know just how much of a problem illegals are. No idea who's where, and how many of them there are.

 

[Bagatur]

My minimum wage employees are mostly high school or uni kids. I employ 30 people half make min. So ill be hiring 1 less person next year to pay the raise for the others. Pay 13 people a buck more and the 14th is right out of a job.

if the work can be done by 13, why do you pay the 14th person now?

 

[3825 968]

if the work can be done by 13, why do you pay the 14th person now?

People will be expected to do a little bit more now. Without reducing customer expectations.

 

[panamaican]

I'd rather not raise the minimum wage. If you do that, then everyone else has to pay more for already overpriced shit.

Would you rather preserve manufacturing jobs at noncompetitive wages and everyone else still has to pay for overpriced shit?

 

[panamaican]

I've listened to these things before, especially from NPR. I fail to understand why they find it so amusing compared to my previous post. It's like the bitcoin of liberals. It's fun to talk about the idea but in practice, it isn't as useful as what is in place.

All of these strategies, raising minimum wage or protecting certain industries from outsourcing, are based on the same principle.

That Americans should get a certain income regardless of if the work is menial, should be automated or if the wages should be lower for the product to remain competitive.

A UBI simply cuts out the bullshit posturing.