Why is the HW limit 265?

[rpn453]

your totally right, but also I just think they want to avoid the sideshow element. Some of these heavyweights already come in out of shape, think it would increase

Guy comes in out of shape, gets destroyed, gets cut. It's not like they're going to keep guys around who aren't top fighters just because they're big.

Guys who are huge but not fit and talented aren't going to last long if they even make it to the UFC in the first place.

 

[svmr_db]

We don't need some 350 lb obese monster just laying on someone like DC or Stipe and becoming the champ

 

[Iron Nick]

Struve is 265 and has an average build if he had Ngannous frame, he would be fat or using steroids?

Struve's frame is bigger than Ngannou's. Frame = skeleton, not including muscles etc.

Of course, if he'd gain a shitload of muscle, he'd have to cut to make 265 but it would still be possible, especially if he cuts some fat off. He's not chubby, but there's certainly quite a bit of fat on the guy.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Wow, I can't believe how many people support the weight limit now.

I think the UFC HW champion should be the best fighter in the world, not just the best fighter who can make 265.

That doesn't make sense though. The best fighter in the world is unanimously considered to be GSP or Jon Jones. Aldo, Silva, Mighty Mouse are all up there in the convo. Right now people think the best fighter in the UFC (outside of Jones) is Khabib, maybe Adesanya? Usman/Volk/Holloway are all right up there.

There are weight classes for a reason.

No offense but I think a lot of the people advocating for no weight limit have never played sports or trained grappling/wrestling/MMA.

Yes on one hand you are certainly excluding a very very small number of legit potential MMA fighters. On the other hand you are protecting the skill-based component of the division and sport. If there are so many 300-350-400+ lb athletes coming into the fray, then make a SHW and/or absolute division.

This is a non-existent problem. Who's being left out right now by the limit? Ho-Man-Choi? Bob Sapp? Shaq? There's virtually no one who weighs 300+ lbs who could compete anyway on the same skill level with any HW, they would be using their size to win predominantly.

Why are you against the weight limit? What specific reason? Your reason seems to be "Kumite!" some anime level sense of the "Best in the world should defeat all opponents and challenges and then use their Ki energy to defeat Frieza". Real life doesn't work like that. I know I'm rambling on, but again all it takes is one Shaq-Hafthor sized man with decent to good, not even athlete, athleticism and average HW skills to completely fucking dominate the division.

Is he the best fighter therefore? No. He's just the biggest fighter, with good enough skills and athleticism to dominate competition. If "the best fighter" was determined in this way, then why are their weight classes? There should just be an absolute weight tourney every year, fuck it.

 

[campbecc]

Professional fighter should be able to avoid a Bob Sapp sized dude's barrage before he gasses.

We haven't seen many Lesnar or Carwin types who are monsters but athletic.

you don't think Sapp was athletic?

 

[the white beast]

Idk why there is some odd thought process on Sherdog where NFL players can only move for 5 seconds then die.

Tons of HWs have terrible cardio anyway. I don't think every DL/OL would just automatically have bad cardio either. Joe Thomas is a HOF LT for the Browns, one of the best OTs ever, I'm pretty sure he runs triathlons and shit now. He is ripped now actually and lost weight, but was still an elite athlete at 310-320 lbs.

What if someone like prime Shaq wanted to compete in the UFC and actually trained for some years prior? On one hand it's unfair to him that he can't compete and I understand HW should perhaps be "absolute" weight arguably. But it's also unfair to everyone weighing 230-265 lbs and it's just stupid at that point.

There's a line crossed at some point. Otherwise do you want to see Cejudo or Garbrandt go fight GSP or Jon Jones? Because that's basically the gap in size we are talking (relative) between a Shaq / Halfthor and a Stipe, DC, or even Ngannou.

An in-shape Shaq with the hobbyist BJJ he has + like 6-12 months of wrestling and striking would completely rape everyone for a decade at HW.

makes the predator look like mighty mouse

 

[VAfan]

Talent pool too shallow above 265lbs.

this has always been the conventional wisdom around here.

 

[Bork Neslar]

165 ? Did they remove his skeleton during that weightcut ?

Sorry, 265. Typing error.

 

[Bork Neslar]

Pretty sure the CTE and USADA taking away his legit TRT exemption is what destroyed BigFoot.

I agree, but it was both the weight cut and the factors you mention.

 

[grimballer]

You would need a weight class between 205 and hw.

imagine 230 pound man going against 320 man?

Either 230 man gonna pick him apart with way superior speed and skill or 320 man will just use his size the ragdoll the 230 guy.

And considering that many hw already have bad cardio, 95% of fights would be freak shows.

 

[the white beast]

That doesn't make sense though. The best fighter in the world is unanimously considered to be GSP or Jon Jones. Aldo, Silva, Mighty Mouse are all up there in the convo. Right now people think the best fighter in the UFC (outside of Jones) is Khabib, maybe Adesanya? Usman/Volk/Holloway are all right up there.

There are weight classes for a reason.

No offense but I think a lot of the people advocating for no weight limit have never played sports or trained grappling/wrestling/MMA.

Yes on one hand you are certainly excluding a very very small number of legit potential MMA fighters. On the other hand you are protecting the skill-based component of the division and sport. If there are so many 300-350-400+ lb athletes coming into the fray, then make a SHW and/or absolute division.

This is a non-existent problem. Who's being left out right now by the limit? Ho-Man-Choi? Bob Sapp? Shaq? There's virtually no one who weighs 300+ lbs who could compete anyway on the same skill level with any HW, they would be using their size to win predominantly.

Why are you against the weight limit? What specific reason? Your reason seems to be "Kumite!" some anime level sense of the "Best in the world should defeat all opponents and challenges and then use their Ki energy to defeat Frieza". Real life doesn't work like that. I know I'm rambling on, but again all it takes is one Shaq-Hafthor sized man with decent to good, not even athlete, athleticism and average HW skills to completely fucking dominate the division.

Is he the best fighter therefore? No. He's just the biggest fighter, with good enough skills and athleticism to dominate competition. If "the best fighter" was determined in this way, then why are their weight classes? There should just be an absolute weight tourney every year, fuck it.

Have to disagree with you. Shaq/Hathor type fighter wont necessarily dominate the
division. The highest level hw fighter would still most likely win. Miocic, Ngannou
and Cormier would still probably be the top 3 guys.
I agree with TS on one point, that is go ahead let bigger guys in. Its not going to
change the division a whole lot.

 

[superpunch]

We don't need some 350 lb obese monster just laying on someone like DC or Stipe and becoming the champ

Actually yes we do.

 

[the white beast]

 

[superpunch]

That doesn't make sense though. The best fighter in the world is unanimously considered to be GSP or Jon Jones. Aldo, Silva, Mighty Mouse are all up there in the convo. Right now people think the best fighter in the UFC (outside of Jones) is Khabib, maybe Adesanya? Usman/Volk/Holloway are all right up there.

And thee best basketball player is some 5'6" manlet on the local courts with great skills, nah.

This is a non-existent problem. Who's being left out right now by the limit? Ho-Man-Choi? Bob Sapp? Shaq? There's virtually no one who weighs 300+ lbs who could compete anyway on the same skill level with any HW, they would be using their size to win predominantly.

There's a potential for guys like Wilt Chamberlain bulked up to come in and show us the pinnacle of human combat potential.

Why are you against the weight limit? What specific reason? Your reason seems to be "Kumite!" some anime level sense of the "Best in the world should defeat all opponents and challenges and then use their Ki energy to defeat Frieza". Real life doesn't work like that. I know I'm rambling on, but again all it takes is one Shaq-Hafthor sized man with decent to good, not even athlete, athleticism and average HW skills to completely fucking dominate the division.

If a Shaq guy built like the Mountain dominates the division, so be it.. I want to see it.

Is he the best fighter therefore? No. He's just the biggest fighter, with good enough skills and athleticism to dominate competition. If "the best fighter" was determined in this way, then why are their weight classes?

To protect the men who have no chance of being the best. If your'e 240 lbs, you might be the best. Therefor no handicaps given. You go in and compete with the best so we can know if you are the best!

There should just be an absolute weight tourney every year, fuck it.

I'm down.

There's a potential for guys like Wilt Chamberlain bulked up to come in and show us the pinnacle of human combat potential. We need to see the best human combatants on the planet fight each other.

 

[grimballer]

Have to disagree with you. Shaq/Hathor type fighter wont necessarily dominate the
division. The highest level hw fighter would still most likely win. Miocic, Ngannou
and Cormier would still probably be the top 3 guys.
I agree with TS on one point, that is go ahead let bigger guys in. Its not going to
change the division a whole lot.

based on what? Those guys are the best right now with 265 limit which is probably ideal for 6’4/240 guys. They don’t have to cut and aren’t really facing 7 foot behemoths.

stipe got destroyed by drained struve. Imagine him facing struve that doesn’t cut weight?

Bigfoot was another one who had to kill himself to make 265 limit

 

[Regal Boy]

Remove the limit and let them bang bro

 

[Palani]

Then it would be a circus and not a fight

 

[Palani]

Dada5000 vs Kimbo is proof there should be a weight maximum.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Have to disagree with you. Shaq/Hathor type fighter wont necessarily dominate the
division. The highest level hw fighter would still most likely win. Miocic, Ngannou
and Cormier would still probably be the top 3 guys.
I agree with TS on one point, that is go ahead let bigger guys in. Its not going to
change the division a whole lot.

Well it's easy to say 230-240 lb guys will have tons of success based off Fedor-Stipe-JDS-Cain, even DC. Sure. But that's easy to say when there has been a 265lb cap and barely anyone ever cutting down to it or reaching it, and when they have they had inferior skill to vastly inferior skill. Fedor fighting a freakshow giant with no skill as well.

It would change the division a ton, IF there was a 290-330+ lb man who also had decent skill. Let alone a 350-400+ lb man with decent athleticism and skill.

Shaq probably weighs 350-400lbs and Halfthor probably weighs 400-450lbs. One is an elite athlete even at that size, and the other is a decent athlete and extremely strong.

So the equivalent would roughly be someone like Mighty Mouse fighting Ray Lewis / Brian Urlacher / Patrick Willis / Luke Kuechly and imagining they trained MMA, grappling/striking and were an MMA fighter. Sure lower the athlete level a notch or three, it's still a ridiculous concept.

Even right now, okay, let's put on Greg Hardy vs Henry Cejudo how do you think that fight is going to go? Is Greg Hardy the "better fighter" if he wins that? It's just a stupid concept.

 

[No Skill Gap]

And thee best basketball player is some 5'6" manlet on the local courts with great skills, nah.


There's a potential for guys like Wilt Chamberlain bulked up to come in and show us the pinnacle of human combat potential.

If a Shaq guy built like the Mountain dominates the division, so be it.. I want to see it.


To protect the men who have no chance of being the best. If your'e 240 lbs, you might be the best. Therefor no handicaps given. You go in and compete with the best so we can know if you are the best!


I'm down.

There's a potential for guys like Wilt Chamberlain bulked up to come in and show us the pinnacle of human combat potential. We need to see the best human combatants on the planet fight each other.

Basketball doesn't impose a height limit or weight limit, I don't get your point.

And fine, that's your opinion but I think the vast majority of people would disagree with that. Wilt Chamberlain fucking sucks anyway too, have to say that. Super overrated player. Doesn't suck obviously, but he's overrated. Do you know him from a Bruce Lee movie?

If you're 240 lbs you are going to be literally 150-200 lbs less than Shaq or Hafthor, your entire gameplan would basically be to survive a round or two and hope they gas out completely. You would get completely fucking ragdolled otherwise.

And that's not even the issue. The issue is having someone with skill who has trained to be an MMA fighter who is Bob Sapp size and athleticism or close to it, or Shaq, or Hafthor. You might want to see it, great. But it's also completely and utterly unfair to current HWs, and it's not even going to happen because those humans are so rare and play other sports for more money.

What's going to happen is that some shitbag 300-400lb roid master flex is going to simply ragdoll legit good HWs and eek out a win. Just like Bob Sapp someone with next to zero training almost did to Big Nog (a top HW in the world at the time).