Why is the HW limit 265?

[g*r*b]

I also thought Roberts vs h20man was at shw. .

Strange. It looks like Tapology et al have the fight listed as Heavyweight—although Roberts was a hefty 350 lbs, 86 lbs more than his opponent. It was on an earlier event though than the McGee fight, so maybe the commission rules had changed in the meantime and established the SHW category? I wasn't watching MMA at the time and don't know the early history too well, but I can imagine that being one of the changes hastily instituted to mollify squeamish government officials.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

If not being able to make 265 would mean that the fighter would be too unfit to compete with the elite then there's no need to have a weight cap as they wouldn't reach the UFC either way

There's no juice free monsters who can't make 265, and it saves us and fighters like Hunt and Lewis from being so lazy they balloon up to 300 lbs of fat and worse cardio.

 

[mjfan23]

It's because a novice with no combat sports background can almost paralyze a top 2-3 MMA fighter from just size. Comparing boxing to mma is completely stupid.

That guy didn’t just paralyze a mma top 2-3, he beat the GOAT kick boxer on sheer size too

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

I always wondered. Why no super heavyweight or just an open weight class after LHW? I would love a bulky Struve, but he would not be able to compete. Is there a reason the limit is 265? I mean,where can a huge 300 pound specimen even go to if he wants to compete in mma? I dont mean I want to see Emanuel Yarboroughs btw

This thread appears over and over every few months or so.

 

[Regal Boy]

So explain Brock Lesnar.

Obviously he had the wrestling prowess, but he wasn't a good fighter. He was just a good athlete and a good wrestler. A raw grappler as well, he basically only knew freestyle wrestling right? He just hulk smashed people and used his size/athleticism and beat Mir + Couture and Carwin through that + wrestling.

Now we're talking about someone who weighs 50-100 lbs more than Lesnar, who might not even be as close in wrestling, might only be 75% the athlete, but might have better well rounded MMA skills from minimal training, or not. That's the problem it doesn't even matter. Someone like that can become champ and that's simply retarded.

"It's called HW"

And if Shaq or Halfthro decided to train boxing seriously, in their primes, would anyone fight them? I doubt that. Promoters wouldn't allow it. And even then boxing =/= MMA, the much more significant advantage is in grappling/wrestling. You don't have to be "good" at anything to beat someone in wrestling/grappling when you outweigh them by 100-200 lbs. You simply ragdoll them.

It's fine we can disagree, you think I'm wrong. But here's a simple question:

Who wins in a grappling/wrestling match, Henry Cejudo or Mike Perry?

Now let's make that dramatically more of a size gap. Who wins, Bob Sapp or DC? So some random roided football reject retard is going to destroy a HW olympian wrestler probably and that's good?

They're on a shitload of steroids and would both be much lighter without it (shaq is fat at this point but when he played he was undoubtedly on test along with every other player).
bjornsonn was 220 pounds before he started using roids he'd deflate down to 280 pounds at this point if he weren't on them.

Lesnar was roided out of his mind

Remove the limit, test for roids, and let them bang bro

 

[superpunch]

There's no juice free monsters who can't make 265, and it saves us and fighters like Hunt and Lewis from being so lazy they balloon up to 300 lbs of fat and worse cardio.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Should be 285 like college wrestling

 

[No Skill Gap]

They're on a shitload of steroids and would both be much lighter without it (shaq is fat at this point but when he played he was undoubtedly on test along with every other player).
bjornsonn was 220 pounds before he started using roids he'd deflate down to 280 pounds at this point if he weren't on them.
View attachment 780077
Lesnar was roided out of his mind

Remove the limit, test for roids, and let them bang bro

Well of course. What makes you think every HW currently is clean though?

 

[noc]

Idk why there is some odd thought process on Sherdog where NFL players can only move for 5 seconds then die.

Tons of HWs have terrible cardio anyway. I don't think every DL/OL would just automatically have bad cardio either. Joe Thomas is a HOF LT for the Browns, one of the best OTs ever, I'm pretty sure he runs triathlons and shit now. He is ripped now actually and lost weight, but was still an elite athlete at 310-320 lbs.

What if someone like prime Shaq wanted to compete in the UFC and actually trained for some years prior? On one hand it's unfair to him that he can't compete and I understand HW should perhaps be "absolute" weight arguably. But it's also unfair to everyone weighing 230-265 lbs and it's just stupid at that point.

There's a line crossed at some point. Otherwise do you want to see Cejudo or Garbrandt go fight GSP or Jon Jones? Because that's basically the gap in size we are talking (relative) between a Shaq / Halfthor and a Stipe, DC, or even Ngannou.

An in-shape Shaq with the hobbyist BJJ he has + like 6-12 months of wrestling and striking would completely rape everyone for a decade at HW.

lol Shaq is shit without roids, also Charles Barkley took him down easy, he lost every fight he had in the NBA lol, someone smaller almost KOed him once

He is maybe the only exception, product of his disease, but probably has taken some roids

 

[noc]

It's because a novice with no combat sports background can almost paralyze a top 2-3 MMA fighter from just size. Comparing boxing to mma is completely stupid.

Maybe he just sucked at takedowns

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

Way to pick the ONE guy in boxing 200 years as a sport who could be competitive at that weight.

 

[MMAart]

I would love to see someone built like that on enormous amounts of epo just to see what they could do.

 

[ZOD66]

If not being able to make 265 would mean that the fighter would be too unfit to compete with the elite then there's no need to have a weight cap as they wouldn't reach the UFC either way

White: No more weight limit
DC:

 

[Straatblaffer]

So explain Brock Lesnar.

Obviously he had the wrestling prowess, but he wasn't a good fighter. He was just a good athlete and a good wrestler. A raw grappler as well, he basically only knew freestyle wrestling right? He just hulk smashed people and used his size/athleticism and beat Mir + Couture and Carwin through that + wrestling.

Now we're talking about someone who weighs 50-100 lbs more than Lesnar, who might not even be as close in wrestling, might only be 75% the athlete, but might have better well rounded MMA skills from minimal training, or not. That's the problem it doesn't even matter. Someone like that can become champ and that's simply retarded.

"It's called HW"

And if Shaq or Halfthro decided to train boxing seriously, in their primes, would anyone fight them? I doubt that. Promoters wouldn't allow it. And even then boxing =/= MMA, the much more significant advantage is in grappling/wrestling. You don't have to be "good" at anything to beat someone in wrestling/grappling when you outweigh them by 100-200 lbs. You simply ragdoll them.

It's fine we can disagree, you think I'm wrong. But here's a simple question:

Who wins in a grappling/wrestling match, Henry Cejudo or Mike Perry?

Now let's make that dramatically more of a size gap. Who wins, Bob Sapp or DC? So some random roided football reject retard is going to destroy a HW olympian wrestler probably and that's good?

I understand your points and I don't say they are not valid. Its just that early days UFC had no weight limit and the better athletes usually beat the big sluggers. So I feel 6.10, 340 pound Lesnar-build guys that are athletic are rare. Extremely rare. And even a non roided Sapp could defenitely destroy DC and that's fine. DC is very lucky there are no good heavier wrestlers in the UFC and would have stayed in LHW when there where guys like Sapp

Also, I don't like some HWs having to cut weight to get to 265. I feel its a major disadvantage against natural 255ers, since cutting defintely killes the little cardio you have as a HW.

 

[Regal Boy]

Well of course. What makes you think every HW currently is clean though?

My point is that, without steroids, there is no man that can exist that can't make the 265 pound limit if he's in shape.

We shouldn't have the limit IMO but your qualm about "super heavyweights" being too difficult to fight as a regular HW doesn't really exist. "Super Heavyweights" are just Heavyweights who are on a ridiculous amount of steroids. Even the biggest tallest dudes with naturally big bone structures do not get above 300 pounds without roids.

 

[King.]

So explain Brock Lesnar.

Obviously he had the wrestling prowess, but he wasn't a good fighter. He was just a good athlete and a good wrestler. A raw grappler as well, he basically only knew freestyle wrestling right? He just hulk smashed people and used his size/athleticism and beat Mir + Couture and Carwin through that + wrestling.

Now we're talking about someone who weighs 50-100 lbs more than Lesnar, who might not even be as close in wrestling, might only be 75% the athlete, but might have better well rounded MMA skills from minimal training, or not. That's the problem it doesn't even matter. Someone like that can become champ and that's simply retarded.

"It's called HW"

And if Shaq or Halfthro decided to train boxing seriously, in their primes, would anyone fight them? I doubt that. Promoters wouldn't allow it. And even then boxing =/= MMA, the much more significant advantage is in grappling/wrestling. You don't have to be "good" at anything to beat someone in wrestling/grappling when you outweigh them by 100-200 lbs. You simply ragdoll them.

It's fine we can disagree, you think I'm wrong. But here's a simple question:

Who wins in a grappling/wrestling match, Henry Cejudo or Mike Perry?

Now let's make that dramatically more of a size gap. Who wins, Bob Sapp or DC? So some random roided football reject retard is going to destroy a HW olympian wrestler probably and that's good?

Comparing Cejudo to Perry is not the same as comparing two HWs. you can't just slap on the same weight difference and assume the impact is the same. there is a thing called "diminishing returns" and in combat sports that starts being a factor at HW. Butterbean isn't the GOAT boxer as far as I know. But he held his own despite being a fat motherfucker. Nelson, same. Did Giant Silva beat Fedor? Don't think he did. Same as Hong Man Choi. I can name a few others. Zuluzinho. Take boxing. Valuev was a solid fighter - but nothing more than that - and even then he was the exception to the rule.

I still haven't ever heard a good reason to impose a cap. If a Sapp-esque dude thinks he can cut it by being a massive, roided up fucker, let him! USADA will catch his ass. or a 240 pound dude that is superior in skill will sleep him. and if they don't, fair play to him. Sapp beat Hoost (twice, second was bullshit stoppage arguably), almost jacked up Noqueira badly but evidently they both (almost) couldn't stop him. up to the opponents to stop guys like this is what I'm saying. Two fat tubs of shit wanna fight? Let 'em. If they ain't up to scratch skill-wise or entertainment-wise, they're not getting in the big leagues anyway or their ass is getting cut.

The potential problem there does not lie within the cap itself but rather the matchmacking.

 

[King.]

My point is that, without steroids, there is no man that can exist that can't make the 265 pound limit if he's in shape.

We shouldn't have the limit IMO but your qualm about "super heavyweights" being too difficult to fight as a regular HW doesn't really exist. "Super Heavyweights" are just Heavyweights who are on a ridiculous amount of steroids. Even the biggest tallest dudes with naturally big bone structures do not get above 300 pounds without roids.

I'd say there is some truth to what you're saying. I'd also argue that everyone on the roster is on steroids as it is. Remove the stigma, be truthful and sensible about the use of steroids and move forward from there. this is obviously not going to happen as WADA / USADA are million-dollar organisations. THink they didn't know that Jones was hiding under the octagon or Armstrong was on fucking epo? I hardly think so. Doping and anti-doping have become a business that needs to be sustained.

 

[Regal Boy]

I'd say there is some truth to what you're saying. I'd also argue that everyone on the roster is on steroids as it is. Remove the stigma, be truthful and sensible about the use of steroids and move forward from there. this is obviously not going to happen as WADA / USADA are million-dollar organisations. THink they didn't know that Jones was hiding under the octagon or Armstrong was on fucking epo? I hardly think so. Doping and anti-doping have become a business that needs to be sustained.

Yea, and if the curret HW were on the amount of roids that those freaks are on, they'd be 320 pounds of muscle as well. "Super Heavyweights" are either fat as shit or on a fuckton of roids. There is no man that can exist within the laws of human biology that can be over 320 pounds of muscle without being on steroids it literally does not exist and never has and never will.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

I always wondered. Why no super heavyweight or just an open weight class after LHW? I would love a bulky Struve, but he would not be able to compete. Is there a reason the limit is 265? I mean,where can a huge 300 pound specimen even go to if he wants to compete in mma? I dont mean I want to see Emanuel Yarboroughs btw

Because either its fatty mc fat fats after 265 or roidman

Neither interest me ... No1 between 6ft and 6ft 5 weighing over 265lbs can be consider to be a healthy CLEAN athlete imo..

For reference



The one guys stomach

 

[Takes_Two_To_Tango]

They shouldn't have 265 limit. Just like in boxing. If you're a good enough fighter you'll make the cut imo. Regardless of weight. And in boxing even without the weight limit, they still have guys in shape ready to go.