Why is LHW and HW so shallow?

[Bend NvR Break]

: )

Also here's more proof of how superior the lower weight classes are

Anderson a natural LHW was schooled by Bisping

While Gsp the WW schooled Bisping

Lower weight class fighters are simply superior

There's a reason why in boxing, the majority of the top 10 GOATS are all under 160 with most being 147 and under

Only in MMA do clueless "MMA fans" put the spotlight on uncoordinated sloppy LHWs/HWs

I guarantee you people would be shocked with how many elite LWs could go and wreck shop in an open weight toruney

LW is the perfect sweet spot of skill/intelligence, balance size/power etc

List please? Ali, Roy Jones Jr and Smokin Joe better be on it.

 

[Brock-B-level-Athlete]

Andrei Arlovski could force McGregor to do whatever he wants

Andre would show him how real men make love

 

[FrodoFraggins]

Big guys go and do real sports.

people don't like hearing that but it's true. Plus the pay is crap for most fighters anyway

 

[PROlogic]

Wrong and wrong. PRIDE openweight tournament had no minimum weight

Lol PRIDE didn't have a LW division? Lmao you are truly clueless
You started watching MMA last year hahahaha....how did u not know PRIDE had a LW division lol??? <45>

No one said anything about there being a "minimum weight". Youre trying to save face with your ridiclous wording

The "open weight GPs" were not real openweights since no one under 183 competed

You might also want to go look at who the actual participants were

Wanderlie was the only notable big name MW who entered the tourney. So it wasn't an open weight tourney at all.

Wanderlie was a brawler who had little skill, so he never had a chance.

Someone like Whittaker would've wrecked shop

And again you ignore how Cro Cop the extremely small HW won it by beating one of the larger HWs who you claim are the best

And you continue to expose yourself Dong Johnson/Mysterio.

Why don't you go tell me how many times their LW and "WW" fighters fought for a title. Tell me if those divisions had any rankings or development in pride

That's besides the point. I refuted all your points. You are dragging this into non-points about semtanics.

Let me give you another one

Look at how Sonnen a MW is one of the favorites to win Bellator's HW tournament lmao

So much for HWs being the best

That would be 2 MWs who the HW GOAT would have lost to

HWs are the "best fighters" yet the HW GOAT losses to MWs. Seems legit

 

[The Blob]

No one said anything about there being a "minimum weight". Your trying to save face with your ridiclous wording

The "open weight GPs" were not real openweights since no one under 183 competed

You might also want to go look at who the actual participants were

Wanderlie was the only notable big name MW who entered the tourney. So it wasn't an open weight tourney at all.

Wanderlie was a brawler who had little skill, so he never had a chance.

Someone like Whittaker would've wrecked shop

And again you ignore how Cro Cop the extremely small HW won it by beating one of the larger HWs who you claim are the best

And you continue to expose yourself Dong Johnson/Mysterio.

Why don't you go tell me how many times their LW and "WW" fighters fought for a title. Tell me if those divisions had any rankings or development in pride

That's besides the point. I refuted all your points. You are dragging this into non-points about semtanics.

Let me give you another one

Look at how Sonnen a MW is one of the favorites to win Bellator's HW tournament lmao

So much for HWs being the best

That would be 2 MWs who the HW GOAT would have lost to now

HWs are the "best fighters" yet the HW GOAT losses to MWs. Seems legit

Lmao a younger Sonnen got mauled effortlessly by Rashad and Jones

That tournament is full of washed up dinosaurs

 

[VVarhead]

My boy Rakic is gonna make LHW great again.

 

[PROlogic]

List please? Ali, Roy Jones Jr and Smokin Joe better be on it.

Ali, Roy Jones??

Jesus christ you are a causal. You know nothing about boxing lol...It all makes sense now...

Look up these names. Willie Pep. Benny Lenoard. Armstrong. Harry Greb. Do you even know who Durran is or Cesar Chavez? Now those ones should be easy

It's not a suprise that you, Brock B Level athlete, NJmma209, and The Blob are all of the same ignorant opinions liking each others posts like cheerleaders who need support from each other

"Idiots think alike"..."birds of the same feather"

You three dorks can try to pretend that what I'm saying is "ridiculous" all you want....Your in your own little bubbles..sane people are on my side... in fact boxing historians and boxing analysts who actually understand fighting are on my side..which is why boxings top 10 GOATS lists are all fighters 160 and under

 

[The Blob]

Ali, Roy Jones??

Jesus christ you are a causal. You know nothing about boxing lol...It all makes sense now...

Look up these names. Willie Pep. Benny Lenoard. Armstrong. Harry Greb. Do you even know who Durran is or Cesar Chavez? Now those ones should be easy

It's not a suprise that you, Brock B Level athlete, and The Blob are all of the same ignorant opinions liking each others posts like cheerleaders who need support from each other

"Idiots think alike"..."birds of the same feather"

You three dorks can try to pretend that what I'm saying is "ridiculous" all you want....Your in your own little bubbles..sane people are on my side... in fact boxing historians and boxing analysts who actually understand fighting are on my side..which is why boxings top 10 GOATS lists are all fighters 160 and under

Are you seriously implying that Chavez was a better boxer than Ali?

Bahahahaha holy shit. Chavez has like 70 Mexican cab drivers on his record and was gifted a draw and a win against Whitaker and Taylor. Whitaker - Chavez is widely considered by boxing heads to be the worst decision in history. Only SRR has an argument of being above Ali and Louis, nobody else. Chavez is the most overrated boxer ever, he's not top 25 on any P4P or GOAT ranking.

 

[PROlogic]

Are you seriously implying that Chavez was a better boxer than Ali?

Anyone who has Roy Jones top 3 all time doesnt know boxing

Heck, your last paragraph shows me that you dont know boxing


"Chávez holds the records for the most total successful defenses of world titles (27, shared with Omar Narváez), most title fight victories (31), and most title fights (37); he has the second most title defenses won by knockout (21, after Joe Louis with 23). His fight record was 89 wins, 0 losses, and 1 draw before his first professional loss to Frankie Randall in 1994, before which he had an 87-fight win streak until his draw with Pernell Whitaker in 1993."



Every single reputable all time list has Chavez top 5 all time

Killed Taylor, Edwin Rosario, Haugen, Comacho

People also ignore how badly Chavez busted Whittaker up with his body work. Whittaker was taken to the hospital after and had cracked ribs.

Its widely known Whittaker was on coke that fight which dulled his pain. Off coke Whittaker probably slows down from the punishment

Chavez was amazing

You could do the same thing to Ali. How many genuine greats did he actually beat? Really only Liston, Foreman and Frazier


What's funny is you dont even know anything about MMA either

 

[The Blob]

Anyone who has Roy Jones top 3 all time doesnt know boxing

Heck, your last paragraph shows me that you dont boxing


"Chávez holds the records for the most total successful defenses of world titles (27, shared with Omar Narváez), most title fight victories (31), and most title fights (37); he has the second most title defenses won by knockout (21, after Joe Louis with 23). His fight record was 89 wins, 0 losses, and 1 draw before his first professional loss to Frankie Randall in 1994, before which he had an 87-fight win streak until his draw with Pernell Whitaker in 1993."



Every single reputable all time list has Chavez top 5

Killed Taylor, Edwin Rosario, Haugen, Comacho

People also ignore how badly Chavez busted Whittaker Up with his body work. Whittaker was taken to the hospital after and had cracked ribs. Whittaker was on coke that fight with dulled his pain. Off coke Whittaker probably slows down from the punishment

Chavez was amazing

You could do the same thing to Ali. What greats did he actually beat? Really only beat Louis, Foreman and Frazier etc


What's funny is you dont even know anything about MMA either

I never said RJJ was top 3, that was someone else

Oh I get it, you must be a Mexican guy that blindly reps Chavez even though he was an overrated can crusher that got his ass whooped by Whitaker haha. Ali's resume is full of all-time greats like Liston, who you forgot to mention, while Julio's is full of bums off the street.

<45>

Anyone who has Chavez in their top 5 knows nothing about boxing, he was sloppy and pushed heavily in the media because he was Mexican.

 

[Andre Xiong]

Maybe the average American isn’t (GASP!) isnt 6’0+ and lean 220+ pounds

And if u are that big, you’d rather try ur hand at popular sports (with college opportunities) than get punched for $2,000 at Saturday shows to try and make it big ($10,000 entry level UFC pay)

Mma isn’t that glamorous and worst is the pay

 

[Brock-B-level-Athlete]

Maybe the average American isn’t (GASP!) isnt 6’0+ and lean 220+ pounds

And if u are that big, you’d rather try ur hand at popular sports (with college opportunities) than get punched for $2,000 at Saturday shows to try and make it big ($10,000 entry level UFC pay)

Mma isn’t that glamorous and worst is the pay

They want this:

 

[Outlaw8888]

1. Irrelvant. Fedor was knocked out cold by a MW.

Hendo a MW who has been schooled by many smaller fighters like Jake Shields and Misaki, HOLDS WINS over the 2 GOATS in Fedor and Nog.

Let that sink in

Factually the best fighters are not HWs.

It truly refutes your non sense that HWs would destroy everyone

Fighting has never been about "bu size or bu athleticism"

Fighting is all about skill and intelligence period

Most HWs will lose to smaller men in their careers. The "best HWs" were all the smaller HWs lmao


2. Now I know you are a troll who just barely started watching MMA

PRIDE's "openweight" tournaments only went from 183 and up.

PRIDE didn't even have a LW or WW division you numbnuts

And why dont you go check who the actual competitors were in the heavier weight GPs that Cro Cop and Coleman won

Coleman beat no one. Cro Cop beat Wanderlie and Josh Barnett.

Also, I like how you even ignore the fact that Cro Cop, A SMALL HW who couldve been a MW in today's climate, won

That beats your theory. Cro Cop beat another larger HW to win. BOOM!

In the early days of UFC when we were having actual LEGIT OPEN weight tournes with all WEIGHTS available to compete, guess who won most of them. A 165lb man. BOOM!

Dude the fact that you think CRO COP could make MW is hilarious....he couldn't even make LHW

the smallest he ever was was 221 pounds totally lean during the 2006 OWGP

normally he was like 225...not big for a HW but that is a totally lean 225

 

[Final Say]

Greg Hardy is a perfect example. Whoever has the HW belt after DC is just keeping it warm for Greg Hardy. He’s gonna be champ early 2020, just because Dana is taking his time with him. He would KO Tai Tuivasa if they fought tomorrow.

Look at the way he slips the punch and counters with his right lightning fast. It looks more impressive than a Conor counter, and Hardy has only been pro for 2 fights

 

[cburm]

Because francis lost

 

[moreorless87]

I've been thinking about this and some people say it's because there aren't enough people that are big enough to fight in those divisions.

But the HW division in boxing in the 70s and 90s (no weight limit as well) were considered to be some of the deepest divisions in boxing history. There were plenty of skilled big guys there, but how come MMA's LHW/HW divisions are full of 35+ year olds?

In terms of boxing I think you've seen a cultural shift in the US, boxing in the mid 20th century was viewed as one of the premier sports in the US and one were racism was fairly limited. Today its clearly lost a lot of that appeal though with sports like US Football and basketball getting more of the talent that would have gone into boxing 40+ years ago.

MMA though I see as rather different to boxing, the nature of the sport being transitional I think means its often less about "talent base" than it is getting people to switch. You look back in the early 00's and HW was actually one of the most evolved divisions because it had money behind it bringing in talent from different sports and allowing it to train well.

I'd say whats changed is that the UFC doesn't tend to invest in new talent very well, its always had a "let them come to us" approach that only really works with US wrestlers in large numbers who have no earnings potential. You want Rico Verhoeven to fight MMA full time you need to go out and get him the way Pride did with Hunt and Crocop.

Really in the higher weightclasses(185lbs and up) the UFC's talent base has depended VERY heavily on talent inherited from much more proactive promoters it bought out like Pride and Strikeforce. We've not seen what a sport where the UFC develops most of its own talent looks like yet but the signs are not very good in the higher weightclasses.

 

[PROlogic]

View attachment 431503
View attachment 431505
Out on the feet and choked>majority decision that included running and stalling

Greg Hardy>Conor in terms of athleticism, but anyone with a working brain knows that.

Let me remind you. You seemed to have ignored this

3 knockdowns>>>>>>0 knockdowns

Conor beating full camp Nate>>>>>Nate upsetting short notice Conor

Busted up face>>>>>>sub

Conor has dealt out far more damage to Nate then vice verse. Conor winning


Also, Greg Hardy will never amount to anything. He's gassing out vs literal tomato cans lmao. He has terrible technique too

Conor>>>Greg Hardy by country miles

The act of Conor making a split second read on an elite opponent, sending the signal from mind to body and countering within a blink of an eye right on the button, IS A FAR FAR MORE impressive "athletic" feat, then anything Hardy has ever done in his life

 

[Njmma209]

3 knockdowns>>>>>>0 knockdowns

Conor beating full camp Nate>>>>>Nate upsetting short notice Conor

Busted up face>>>>>>sub

Conor has dealt out far more damage to Nate then vice verse


AlsonGreg Hardy will never amount to anything. He's gassing out vs literal tomato cans lmao. He has terrible technique too

Conor>>>Greg Hardy by country miles

The act of Conor making a split second read on an elite opponent, reacting from mind to body, and countering within a blink of an eye right on the button, IS A FAR FAR MORE impressive "athletic" feat, then anything Hardy has ever done in his life

 

[Brock-B-level-Athlete]

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Ali, Roy Jones??

Jesus christ you are a causal. You know nothing about boxing lol...It all makes sense now...

Look up these names. Willie Pep. Benny Lenoard. Armstrong. Harry Greb. Do you even know who Durran is or Cesar Chavez? Now those ones should be easy

It's not a suprise that you, Brock B Level athlete, NJmma209, and The Blob are all of the same ignorant opinions liking each others posts like cheerleaders who need support from each other

"Idiots think alike"..."birds of the same feather"

You three dorks can try to pretend that what I'm saying is "ridiculous" all you want....Your in your own little bubbles..sane people are on my side... in fact boxing historians and boxing analysts who actually understand fighting are on my side..which is why boxings top 10 GOATS lists are all fighters 160 and under

Kinda hostile aren't we? Getting pretty emotional for a person whose name includes logic in it.

Once again P4P is 100% subjective and based on personal opinion. There is no set in stone list.

Plus did you just say Ali isn't one of the greatest boxers of all time?