Why is legitimate Existential Crisis confused with depression ?

[Flemmy Stardust]

I feel like your viewpoint is legitimate and justified. I just also think that the alternative viewpoint--that of despair at the meaningless of it all--is equally valid.

Well nihilism is viewpoint. I don't think you need to subscribe to it, don't see the benefit in subscribing to it, and am offering encouragement.

 

[Guestx]

No I do get what you are saying, I have thought that way, but felt truly at peace when I realized there is no external to this, it simply is, and when I am gone I will not exist, this made me appreciate the now. The now is all that is, so it is best for me, to live as such and work towards things I can accomplish or pass forward to others that I believe in. It matters not if I can be snuffed out or am wiped away as sand, because I am now, and that alone is the reason to exist and enjoy or create purpose, simply because we have the chance to exist.

I have a friend who's a lot like you. He's a Jehovah's Witness-turned-atheist. He also finds meaning now simply in existence. Probably not a bad way to live.

The search will never satisfy you, but I am not saying to stop looking. Accepting this is all there is, and marveling at the greatness of this, and how truly extraordinary simply living is, compared to not existing, that alone should be eye opening. The ego in you drives your questions, but again, the mundane things like breathing, seeing, feeling, being, should be cherished because the alternative to this is not existing and then well you wouldnt have those questions at all because...you wouldnt be.

Well that's the thing about the search . . . some people DO find satisfaction. You didn't. But it's not logical to project your failure to do so upon everyone.

To despair at the meaninglessness of it all is to miss the point.

To even suggest that there is a point is to concede that there is a grand plan at work.

 

[Guestx]

A God, as in a being of greater power than yourself? Sure. A more advanced intelligence? Sure. God = Universe as we are all part of the same experience and materials? Sure.

Even this kind of God would change the game completely in regard to what you currently believe.

A god that gives moral guidelines and a reward/punishment system, that you will only see when you are dead? Absolutely not.

Why not?

 

[thoughtsone]

Well that's the thing about the search . . . some people DO find satisfaction. You didn't. But it's not logical to project your failure to do so upon everyone.


To even suggest that there is a point is to concede that there is a grand plan at work.

In the context of the TS, the search is not bringing him satisfaction, if the journey of searching brings you purpose...well you just found a purpose! My point was aimed at the TS who seems to not be happy with anything, even the search for meaning.

As far as the last bit, not true. To acknowledge that existence is all we have and we should cherish it based on that does not suggest their is a grand design at all, again you are looking for something deeper (which is fine, if it serves you, if it drives you to depression, or selfharm and has no positive it should be discarded imo) when what I stated was simply "it is what is, be happy it is at all".

 

[Guestx]

It's the dirty secret of the religious. They are not moral to be moral. There's a pot of gold at the end for them. It defeats it's own purpose.

This isn't really a fair statement. I'll cite a specific example: I used to be a Christian and one time I was making a drive from Memphis, TN to Jackson, MS. I passed by a hitchhiker, and as I did I remembered the biblical verse, "He who knows the good he should do, but does not, sins."

Did I WANT to pick up a dirty, sketchy hitchhiker? Not really. But I was compelled to by the Bible's teaching and did it anyway. In that moment, I wasn't expecting a pat on the back from God. I just decided to live up to the principles that I had chosen to believe in.

Well nihilism is viewpoint. I don't think you need to subscribe to it, don't see the benefit in subscribing to it, and am offering encouragement.

Fair enough. I just think that words don't mean much in this situation. It's kind of like telling a widow, "Things will get better."

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

Even this kind of God would change the game completely in regard to what you currently believe.


Why not?

There are better things to live for than a dictator.

 

[thoughtsone]

Even this kind of God would change the game completely in regard to what you currently believe.

It wouldnt in the slightest, if something greater than me exists, awesome, I am not saying it cannot, but how would that change what I believe? I dont believe humans are the end all be all, I think there is life on other planets, and wonders outside of what we know on earth. That doesn't change that I think we exist for biological reasons and the fact we exist at all is amazing and that in itself is fine. That wouldn't all the sudden make me unhappy with existence or the fact that this is all there is, nor would it change my view on my own existence and that when I die I cease to exist, and that existing at all is the purpose of life.

As to the last bit, I believe a moral system based on rewards is not a moral system. You can say you want to live up to a principle and that is fine, but when you live up to that simply to get to heaven, or to placate something outside yourself, that to me is not a moral system.

 

[Guestx]

In the context of the TS, the search is not bringing him satisfaction, if the journey of searching brings you purpose...well you just found a purpose! My point was aimed at the TS who seems to not be happy with anything, even the search for meaning.

As far as the last bit, not true. To acknowledge that existence is all we have and we should cherish it based on that does not suggest their is a grand design at all, again you are looking for something deeper (which is fine, if it serves you, if it drives you to depression, or selfharm and has no positive it should be discarded imo) when what I stated was simply "it is what is, be happy it is at all".

I think that some people are driven to search for something greater. Simply saying "Be happy with the here and now!" doesn't really do much. That doesn't mean, however, that I think your intentions aren't good.

I'm just advocating for the despairing existentialists. Saying "Look at the leaves, aren't they pretty?", "Isn't it great that you have such friendships?", "Feel the sun upon you, isn't that great?" just doesn't quite do it sometimes.

 

[Guestx]

It wouldnt in the slightest, if something greater than me exists, awesome, I am not saying it cannot, but how would that change what I believe? I dont believe humans are the end all be all, I think there is life on other planets, and wonders outside of what we know on earth. That doesn't change that I think we exist for biological reasons and the fact we exist at all is amazing and that in itself is fine. That wouldn't all the sudden make me unhappy with existence or the fact that this is all there is, nor would it change my view on my own existence and that when I die I cease to exist, and that existing at all is the purpose of life.

As to the last bit, I believe a moral system based on rewards is not a moral system. You can say you want to live up to a principle and that is fine, but when you live up to that simply to get to heaven, or to placate something outside yourself, that to me is not a moral system.

I think that if an intelligence exists that is greater than us--an intelligence that presumably had some input into our creation--then that changes everything.

 

[Guestx]

There are better things to live for than a dictator.

To be fair, there's a reason I left Christianity. But that's mostly because I think the rules of Christianity are sometimes absurd, not so much because the idea of a God keeping an eye on shit is offensive to me.

 

[M3t4tr0n]

A God, as in a being of greater power than yourself? Sure. A more advanced intelligence? Sure. God = Universe as we are all part of the same experience and materials? Sure. A god that gives moral guidelines and a reward/punishment system, that you will only see when you are dead? Absolutely not.

This

 

[thoughtsone]

I think that some people are driven to search for something greater. Simply saying "Be happy with the here and now!" doesn't really do much. That doesn't mean, however, that I think your intentions aren't good.

I'm just advocating for the despairing existentialists here. Saying "Look at the leaves, aren't they pretty?", "Isn't it great that you have such friendships?", "Feel the sun upon you, isn't that great?" just doesn't quite do it sometimes.

And that is fine, I never said its BAD to search for more. I simply said you will never find an answer that would completely appease that. If one cannot except the simplicity of things, that should you come across a greater truth that is just as simple, how would one accept that without again continuing the search for more. For the TS he stated that he is looked at as a depressed person, and that he finds no joy in anything including his gf, job, life etc and how could he when this cant possibly be all there is. That to me sounds like someone who can never be appeased, and as such I was stating that if no meaning will bring you joy, you will never have joy. Where as you yourself seem to find fulfillment in the search for meaning and that in itself is a purpose and a constructive one at that.

 

[Guestx]

And that is fine, I never said its BAD to search for more. I simply said you will never find an answer that would completely appease that. If one cannot except the simplicity of things, that should you come across a greater truth that is just as simple, how would one accept that without again continuing the search for more. For the TS he stated that he is looked at as a depressed person, and that he finds no joy in anything including his gf, job, life etc and how could he when this cant possibly be all there is. That to me sounds like someone who can never be appeased, and as such I was stating that if no meaning will bring you joy, you will never have joy. Where as you yourself seem to find fulfillment in the search for meaning and that in itself is a purpose and a constructive one at that.

No, not really. A few months ago I walked off into a pond with the intention of drowning myself. I was just going to keep walking until I was underwater . . . it just turned out the pond wasn't deep enough and I didn't have it in me to force myself under.

So the search doesn't fulfill me. I need answers. I have tried to do the whole, "Just be here, live in the moment, appreciate nature, be happy you're alive at all" thing. But the questions are still there.

 

[thoughtsone]

I think that if an intelligence exists that is greater than us--an intelligence that presumably had some input into our creation--then that changes everything.

Well one, to assume a greater intelligence cares about us is an ego driven thing, but I will play ball. Lets say they do have an idea about our creation, when you say input I would think you are saying helped create us? If that is your take while its not COMPLETELY out of the realm, I 100% dont believe it as of now. If you say input as in would have more facts and observations that explain our biological or universal location, it still wouldnt change anything to me, because it wouldnt change that when I cease to exist I cease to exist, and what I experience now is all I have.

Again I am not saying you are wrong to pursue your search I make no judgement of your own personal beliefs, I am simply saying that none of those change the core tenent that existence is all we have, and when we are gone, as far as we exist NOW, that ceases to be. That is my belief, but I do not think yours is any more right than mine, but as of now the burden of proof tends to lend itself more towards that.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

This isn't really a fair statement. I'll cite a specific example: I used to be a Christian and one time I was making a drive from Memphis, TN to Jackson, MS. I passed by a hitchhiker, and as I did I remembered the biblical verse, "He who knows the good he should do, but does not, sins."

Did I WANT to pick up a dirty, sketchy hitchhiker? Not really. But I was compelled to by the Bible's teaching and did it anyway. In that moment, I wasn't expecting a pat on the back from God. I just decided to live up to the principles that I had chosen to believe in.

The whole point of morality in a religious vacuum is that you will be rewarded for it in the afterlife. It fundamentally robs you of the opportunity to be moral for the sake of being moral.

Fair enough. I just think that words don't mean much in this situation. It's kind of like telling a widow, "Things will get better."

They do get better. My father passed away. My mother didn't roll over and die, and neither did i.

But what I'm saying is, things are fine already. You just have to start appreciating the cool shit you've gone through in your life more, and know that you can control whether more cool shit happens in the future.

 

[thoughtsone]

No, not really. A few months ago I walked off into a pond with the intention of drowning myself. I was just going to keep walking until I was underwater . . . it just turned out the pond wasn't deep enough and I didn't have it in me to force myself under.

So the search doesn't fulfill me. I need answers. I have tried to do the whole, "Just be here, live in the moment, appreciate nature, be happy you're alive at all" thing. But the questions are still there.

Well that does sound like depression(haha jk), or at least the inability to accept what is and the want for a greater ideal. With that said, the answers you are searching for might not exist, or they simply be that we exist to exist and then we dont. Would that change how you live your life? Would you decide that the benefit of existing and experiencing everything we get to, is just not enough reason to be? If so I would look inward instead of out, I think alot of those feelings could be very valid but maybe the questions you are asking is wrong. I dont know though, its just a passing thought.

 

[shanegotu11]

That is another attempt at distraction, no ? That's just avoiding my real dilemma of trying to know my place in this Universe and the true meaning of my existence.

I did that before and freaked me out. I'm very analytical. But I just try to enjoy life and what it is. Family get togethers, walks with my dog, sports, video GMs. Life is once an then it is gone.

Its weird to imagine that one day we will all be gone but I try to act like I got 50+ yes.

 

[Guestx]

Well one, to assume a greater intelligence cares about us is an ego driven thing, but I will play ball. Lets say they do have an idea about our creation, when you say input I would think you are saying helped create us? If that is your take while its not COMPLETELY out of the realm, I 100% dont believe it as of now. If you say input as in would have more facts and observations that explain our biological or universal location, it still wouldnt change anything to me, because it wouldnt change that when I cease to exist I cease to exist, and what I experience now is all I have.

You see, I think that if an intelligent God exists then he had a hand in our creation. After all, if he didn't, how did we get here? And if we got here by way of this intelligent God, then why wouldn't he be interested in what was going on with us?

Again I am not saying you are wrong to pursue your search I make no judgement of your own personal beliefs, I am simply saying that none of those change the core tenent that existence is all we have, and when we are gone, as far as we exist NOW, that ceases to be. That is my belief, but I do not think yours is any more right than mine, but as of now the burden of proof tends to lend itself more towards that.

That's fair enough. Maybe it IS all we have. As an agnostic, I believe nothing and am open to everything.

 

[Harmonica]

"Happiness is byproduct of achievement". That's another paraphrase of Nietzsche's "Life is a will to power". Modern day decadents would have you believe that happiness is absence of pain and woes, a euphoric numbness of nerves, and that you should strive to make your life as comfortable as possible. The truth is that happiness derives from overcoming obstacles, growing in power. This will to power is manifested in various ways, it differs from individual to individual. While some may seek external power in the form of wealth, social status, political supremacy, others will seek internal power in the form of self-mastery, perfection of skills, asceticism etc. Will to power is easily traced in both Napoleon and Jesus. The former sought to physically conquer the world and arrange it to fit his will while the latter sought to conquer the world spiritually with his teachings by refusing to submit to his torturers, causing people to think that his teachings must have some deeper meaning when he's ready to die for them.

Sadness, depression(bar clinic one, that's another thing completely), angst, rage appear when our will to power begins to fade. That's the point where our will to power commands us to seek death in the form of abrupt or prolonged suicide, being that taking our own lives still implies control and power and thus satisfies our will to power.

We do not seek happiness, we seek power. When we find it, happiness accompanies it and we make the mistake in thinking that this feeling is what makes it worthwhile but in reality, it is the struggle that made it worthwhile. While we're fighting for something, we feel pressure and want to give up, but when we accomplish that for which we were fighting, we come to the realization that it's nothing special and that it was the struggle that made it beautiful.

You problem of lack of purpose is all present. It is the humanity's main enemy. Anyone with half a brain and intellectual honesty will tell you that life has no universal intrinsic purpose, because it doesn't. Still, that doesn't mean that self-assigned purpose doesn't exist. And before you confuse what I am talking about with "Pick a random thing and try to feel passionate about it", I will say that in order to feel genuinely fulfilled, your self-assigned purpose must stem from your deepest, most intimate passion - your primary mode of existence. The very core of your being, that which drives you to go ever forward. I know what it's comprised of in my own case, bu what it is for you, I cannot tell you because I don't know. Only you can find that answer.

My advice to you is to reminisce and look for patterns throughout your life. What is that one thing that always made you feel happy, no matter the age you were and external circumstances that befell you? That is the manifestation of your will to power. Find the answer to that and you'll know what to pursue.

If it doesn't match that criteria, you will not persevere.

 

[thoughtsone]

You see, I think that if an intelligent God exists then he had a hand in our creation. After all, if he didn't, how did we get here? And if we got here by way of this intelligent God, then why wouldn't he be interested in what was going on with us?
.

And to just ask the quesion, if said God said our science theories are right, the big bang is right (or whatever creation theory you wanna go with), we exist because we evolved out of the set rules of biology, physics, and all that, and that he simply was the spark to create this and nothing more, we are just like any other animal on earth or anywhere. Would that satisfy you, would it cure that search and would you be ok with moving forward?