Media Why is Japan struggling in the UFC?

[Hymen Crusher]

They have a shocking lack of bjj black.belts over there. Same as some of these asian countries. My friend got a job in Singapore running a gym making real money and he was an average blackbelt.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

They have a shocking lack of bjj black.belts over there. Same as some of these asian countries. My friend got a job in Singapore running a gym making real money and he was an average blackbelt.

Japan has many BJJ blackbelts and a lack of BJJ blackbelts has little to do with being good at MMA. That is not to mention the grappling arts that are adjacent to BJJ that are prominent in Japan.

There are WAY more BJJ blackbelts in Japan than Central Asian countries.

 

[Hymen Crusher]

Japan has many BJJ blackbelts and a lack of BJJ blackbelts has little to do with being good at MMA. That is not to mention the grappling arts that are adjacent to BJJ that are prominent in Japan.

There are WAY more BJJ blackbelts in Japan than Central Asian countries.

Yeah well I guess they just suck at mma then. I was hoping that might be it

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Yeah well I guess they just suck at mma then. I was hoping that might be it

They're probably the only Eastern Asian country that has a long history of ground fighting. They are the founders of Jiu Jitsu after all.

They're good at all the separate components of MMA, they just suck at putting it together. Cross training, cutting weight, selective match making, just a lot of problems really.

Japanese fighters just never cared much about losing, and thats why they lose so much.

 

[SuperNerd]

Pushing.

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh, but if it is a combat sport it's the least applicable one to MMA I would say.

Its Judo.

Arguably more applicable because no gi.

 

[Brigfa2]

the modern image of Japan is the ONLY image that matters. that's their CURRENT CULTURE, therefore all generations NOW are growing up with that culture.

wtf do war crimes have to do with a violent warrior culture? torturing people isn't a fight, you don't have to be strong physically to do that. Japanese culture SEPARATED the warriors from the normies and that warrior class disappeared. in Samoa, every boy is the same. there's not a "special" warrior class and then the rest are plebs. Samoa is too small for that shit, everybody has to fight. maybe your 4th world school should teach how Samoa was enslaved by Tonga for hundreds of years, and then they won their independence by literally fighting the Tongans and throwing them out of Samoa. Samoa is known for violence because their history is FILLED with it. not torturing people, or shooting guns at people who don't have guns, they're literally FIGHTING with machetes/clubs/whatever, man on man fighting.

when your culture is constantly fighting, that's how you create a nation of people who fight. isn't that why Dagestan is good?

Nope, Dagestan is good because they have more people training MMA than Japan and India combined

 

[Brigfa2]

You don't see Japanese fighting because you are probably not in Japan or follow Japanese media.


Within the last month Shigeoka, Yabuki, Iwata, Kyoguchi, Teraji, Akui, Nakatani, Tsutsumi, and Higa all fought for or defended world titles. That's just going off my calendar of guys I saw.


That's 9 guys within the last 5 weeks, and I think I missed one or two.

Weeb

 

[djacobox372]

The same reason why do Japanese men struggle in physical male sports as a whole. They just aren't built for it typically. There's an occasional exception in the lower weight classes (Naoya Inoue), but it's rare.

 

[seanb1979]

You don't see Japanese fighting because you are probably not in Japan or follow Japanese media.


Within the last month Shigeoka, Yabuki, Iwata, Kyoguchi, Teraji, Akui, Nakatani, Tsutsumi, and Higa all fought for or defended world titles. That's just going off my calendar of guys I saw.


That's 9 guys within the last 5 weeks, and I think I missed one or two.

Right, but I mean, I do watch the bigger title fights. Saudis/Dubai have been putting on some good fights. I'm not sure I've seen a single japanese fighter on any of those cards, and these are big international cards at times. Do they not have an american presence?

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Right, but I mean, I do watch the bigger title fights. Saudis/Dubai have been putting on some good fights. I'm not sure I've seen a single japanese fighter on any of those cards, and these are big international cards at times. Do they not have an american presence?

People who watch Saudi cards would not have interest in seeing Japanese guys fight. So that is why Japanese people are not on Saudi cards. Saudis are not targeting Japanese people.

Saudi people are appealing to Europe and the Middle East usually/primarily. Their cards also have an unusual amount of high level heavyweight fights which doesn't have many Japanese people involved.



Japanese fighters are in the lower weight classes, which is likely why msot people on sherdog do not hear much about those weight classes since most people here are Western.

It is not that different from how many people in America barely know anything about cruiserweight fighting or even light heavyweight which often has Eastern European presence (I know Bivol vs Beterbiev happened recently, that fight is actually geared more toward Muslim and European fans).

 

[seanb1979]

People who watch Saudi cards would not have interest in seeing Japanese guys fight. So that is why Japanese people are not on Saudi cards. Saudis are not targeting Japanese people.

Saudi people are appealing to Americans and Brits usually. Their cards also have an unusual amount of high level heavyweight fights which doesn't have many Japanese people involved.

Japanese fighters are in the lower weight classes, which is likely why likely do not hear much about those weight classes. It is not that different from how many people in America barely know anything about cruiserweight fighting or even light heavyweight which often has Eastern European presence (I know Bivol vs Beterbiev happened recently, that fight is actually geared more toward Muslim and European fans).

People like to see the best fighters fight. It's not about wanting to see x or y race. If you can win, you get eyes on you. I've watched a lot of great fights in the lower weight classes with guys like Kambosos, Tank Davis, Lomachenko, etc. Tons of great fights to be had there but I never see japanese boxers fight guys like that. By and large, people just want to see who's the best.

 

[Ube]

The same reason why do Japanese men struggle in physical male sports as a whole. They just aren't built for it typically. There's an occasional exception in the lower weight classes (Naoya Inoue), but it's rare.

Ignorant ass take. Holy shit.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

People like to see the best fighters fight. It's not about wanting to see x or y race. If you can win, you get eyes on you. I've watched a lot of great fights in the lower weight classes with guys like Kambosos, Tank Davis, Lomachenko, etc. Tons of great fights to be had there but I never see japanese boxers fight guys like that. By and large, people just want to see who's the best.

That isn't how sports marketing works. They are selling and telling you who is the best because they think you will be interested in them. You're not actually watching all the best. It's not even hypothetical.

For instance, the guys you listed - Kambosos? He is not the best, but he is a star in Australia. He is just promoted well. Tank Davis? Not near the best really, but he sells PPVs in America. Were you as familiar with Usyk before he became a HW? Statistically speaking, it's unlikely unless you are European or a big boxing fan. Usyk was the GOAT Cruiserweight, yet he didn't have any big fights in America during that period.


People by in large, want to see athletes they identify with or are entertained by. If you had an MMA promotion based in South Africa and you had the money to buy a bunch of wrestlers from Central Asia, do you think that promotion would become incredibly successful just because you have good fighters from Central Asia? Even guys who can beat ranked UFC guys?

Why do you think regional orgs don't just raid guys from developing countries and fill 99% of their roster with them? Why does the UFC only have a handful of guys from Dagestan but a lot of guys from Mexico?





Anyway, many, many, many boxing champions are Japanese. So there you go. You haven't heard of them because they fight at 4 AM on ESPN. They exist.

 

[jeskola]

Anyway, many, many, many boxing champions are Japanese. So there you go. You haven't heard of them because they fight at 4 AM on ESPN. They exist.

 

[JustforBROCK]

The population of Japan is 125million, the population of Samoa is 200k.

Yeah and outside of Mark hunt who do they have? For a culture that's all about violence and fighting they sure do fail to produce winning championship fighters. The expectation is that they would be good fighters as opposed to Japan whose culture is built around the exact opposite.

 

[JustforBROCK]

what do you mean? Japan has zero UFC champions. Samoans have 2, Robert Whittaker and Max Holloway. Mark Hunt is literally the ONLY non-European K-1 GP winner. they're also overrepresented in contact sports. which is my point. there's more Samoans WILLING to fight than there are Japanese which is why they end up doing better.

this is not just Samoan thing, this is ANY warrior culture. the Japanese get dominated in their OWN NATIONAL SPORT by Mongolians. why? because Mongolians have a warrior culture.

if the question was "Why is there zero Samoan Nobel Prize winners?" my argument would be the same. because they don't give a fuck about that shit the way other cultures do.

Are you fucking retarded?

 

[Tatra]

I get the argument but it falls flat with the Samoan shit. They are notoriously tough, but they have about as many good fighters as Japan has had.

Polynesians have poor stamina. They get by on just being big, no one wants to fuck with 'em. But when it comes to high level combat sports where you need to really dedicate yourself, they fall badly short.

 

[seanb1979]

That isn't how sports marketing works. They are selling and telling you who is the best because they think you will be interested in them. You're not actually watching all the best. It's not even hypothetical.

For instance, the guys you listed - Kambosos? He is not the best, but he is a star in Australia. He is just promoted well. Tank Davis? Not near the best really, but he sells PPVs in America. Were you as familiar with Usyk before he became a HW? Statistically speaking, it's unlikely unless you are European or a big boxing fan. Usyk was the GOAT Cruiserweight, yet he didn't have any big fights in America during that period.


People by in large, want to see athletes they identify with or are entertained by. If you had an MMA promotion based in South Africa and you had the money to buy a bunch of wrestlers from Central Asia, do you think that promotion would become incredibly successful just because you have good fighters from Central Asia? Even guys who can beat ranked UFC guys?

Why do you think regional orgs don't just raid guys from developing countries and fill 99% of their roster with them? Why does the UFC only have a handful of guys from Dagestan but a lot of guys from Mexico?





Anyway, many, many, many boxing champions are Japanese. So there you go. You haven't heard of them because they fight at 4 AM on ESPN. They exist.

I mentioned Kambosos because he wasn't a star, he's international, and he beat a legit guy for a title. There is never one 'best' except for maybe when Mayweather was in his prime.

How can you claim japanese fighters are 'the best' when they're fighting LITERAL nobodies? Sorry, I can't take that seriously. The level of competition matters.

And Dagestan only has so many top level MMA guys. They also have a lot of visa issues because of associating with guys like Kadyrov. It makes traveling to first world countries a bit of a challenge.

 

[seanb1979]

Yeah and outside of Mark hunt who do they have? For a culture that's all about violence and fighting they sure do fail to produce winning championship fighters. The expectation is that they would be good fighters as opposed to Japan whose culture is built around the exact opposite.

Quite a few end up in the nfl - something like 50-60 currently active, which is huge considering how few of them there are.

 

[marvinparsons]

I haven't followed lately but it was mega popular in the days of Sakuraba and Fedor. They'd fill up huge arenas.

That's as a spectator sport. People like watching MMA here in Canada too, but it's an EXTREMELY niche sport to compete in. And we currently have I'd guess zero top 15 fighters in any division.