Media Why is Japan struggling in the UFC?

[Hog-train]

Wrestling is a very physical / aggressive sport.

Japanese are also really good at kickboxing too. With recent champions in lower weight classes.

I think as others have mentioned in the thread they don’t utilise weightcutting in mma as well as they could have.

Also their mma training must be lacking in some way, they’ll probably close that gap in the next 20 or so years.

It shows the complete ignorance many UFC fans have of other combat sports. The Japanese are killing it right in the boxing, Olympic wrestling and of course Judo scene.

Globally MMA is a pissant sport compared to those. People here bringing up 19th century racial sciences to explain why Japanese don't care about MMA lmao

Well a big part of the video is describing how the combat athletes in Japan stay in wrestling, boxing and judo because it pays a lot better than the MMA scene. They never make that transfer to MMA unlike in the US where wrestlers have no other career choice.

 

[Söze Aldo]

Well a big part of the video is describing how the combat athletes in Japan stay in wrestling, boxing and judo because it pays a lot better than the MMA scene. They never make that transfer to MMA unlike in the US where wrestlers have no other career choice.

Yeah, that's fair, talent always follows the money.

The responses here claiming there is a genetic reason they aren't good at combat sports cracked me up. As if, boxing, wrestling and judo aren't foundational aspects to what makes MMA.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Well a big part of the video is describing how the combat athletes in Japan stay in wrestling, boxing and judo because it pays a lot better than the MMA scene. They never make that transfer to MMA unlike in the US where wrestlers have no other career choice.

Those things are true in every country, and the best wrestlers in America do not go into MMA anymore. The best American fighters hardly have any serious wrestling pedigrees.

 

[rear-naked-poke]

because in your 4th world school none has teached you the atrocities japanese soldiers did in China during WW2 or, worse, what they did to prisoners in order to advance the "science" (spoiler: Mengelesque).

the modern image of japan is just the result of losing a war and being culturally forced to change, but they are still among the most racist and unmerciful people on the earth.

This!! They were the most barbaric ones. There are many incidents which coul attest to this.

 

[usernamee]

This!! They were the most barbaric ones. There are many incidents which coul attest to this.

I've always had The Rape of Nanking on my reading list but never really dared to get into it even though I've read a bunch of holocaust and gulag stuff

 

[HuskySamoan]

their culture. it is not conducive to building individuality. MMA is an individual sport. their society is not particularly conducive to violence. it's that simple. sure, not cutting weight and whatever, but you have to be an animal in fighting. you have to be like Kid Yamamoto, or Takanori Gomi. these guys wanted to smash your face.

it's like asking why there's so many Samoan fighters when Samoa is WAY smaller than Japan. that's because Samoa's entire culture is built around violence and fighting. you come from a violent warrior society, guess what, you get violent warriors.

Why do they hold 11 world titles in boxing and two of the top 10 p4p boxers right now? Why are they a top 5 wrestling nation in the world and arguably the best country at Judo? Why is it they have a strong kickboxing scene at lower weights but not MMA? I don't think it's this simple...They were stunted for years and far behind the rest of the world in MMA after Pride died and even during Pride there weren't many great Japanese CHAMPIONS, even Sakuraba was more of a beloved journeyman who took on challenges bigger than life. Gomi was a great one, Sakurai was a great one but really...the game passed them by and they haven't caught up. In the US, Russia, Brazil and even some European gyms...these guys have networks for cross training, with other top gyms. These Japanese gyms tend to have worse, much worse coaching staff and not much in terms of stables for training partners and sparring. They're just behind, they have the talent and resources but it needs to be built, they need a guy who takes an modern approach to MMA that builds a team out there and starts building generations of success.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

what do you mean? Japan has zero UFC champions. Samoans have 2, Robert Whittaker and Max Holloway. Mark Hunt is literally the ONLY non-European K-1 GP winner. they're also overrepresented in contact sports. which is my point. there's more Samoans WILLING to fight than there are Japanese which is why they end up doing better.

this is not just Samoan thing, this is ANY warrior culture. the Japanese get dominated in their OWN NATIONAL SPORT by Mongolians. why? because Mongolians have a warrior culture.

if the question was "Why is there zero Samoan Nobel Prize winners?" my argument would be the same. because they don't give a fuck about that shit the way other cultures do.

Fascinating. You must be including Machida as a Japanese champion then?

 

[Hellowhosthat]

The same reason why do Japanese men struggle in physical male sports as a whole. They just aren't built for it typically. There's an occasional exception in the lower weight classes (Naoya Inoue), but it's rare.

Lmao sorry Sherbro but this is an all time bad take.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Lmao sorry Sherbro but this is an all time bad take.

I love his example is boxing because he knows so little about sports that Inoue is like one of the few boxers he knows.

Inoue in boxing is an exception for Japan, ignoring the 10 other champions they have. Sherdog is a wealth of ignorance.

 

[pankrat]

Its not that much of an enigma: Japanese are small on average and UFC does not bid for talent in smaller weightclasses

Otherwise, Horiguchi would have been UFC champ these years and several others would've been around tittle contention.
More so if UFC introduced male Straweight

Just like in boxing, KB or wrestling: Japanese are top tier in the lightest divisions but you barely see them in middle-upper weightclasses

 

[arcadeperfect]

I love his example is boxing because he knows so little about sports that Inoue is like one of the few boxers he knows.

Inoue in boxing is an exception for Japan, ignoring the 10 other champions they have. Sherdog is a wealth of ignorance.

People don't realize that in terms of all time number of boxing champions, Asian countries are in the top 10:

 

[Natural Order]

do yourself a favor and search for "sumo knockouts" on Youtube.

and then do yourself another favor and look up Hakuho Sho, who had a palm strike/forearm strike technique that was so effective that a council under the Japanese Sumo Association came out and criticized him for using it as they saw it as "beneath the dignity of a Yokozuna". Hakuho still did use the technique after that, but less.

its not applicable to MMA really at all, but to call it NOT a combat sport is just flat out wrong. get into it! sumo can be really exciting and surprisingly violent.

here's a highlight vid of Chiyonofuji. one of my favorites to watch. guy is small but he was an absolute beast.

Sumo is sorely lacking headbutts. I feel like they'd integrate well here.

 

[evergreenrider]

The killer instinct got weeded out performing kamikaze missions

 

[Ara tech]

But Japan is already a leader in combat sport. So many athletes so many elite fighters in so many disciplines.

Judo and Freestyle Wrestling, the japanese are getting a lot of medals, gold and silver.

Amateur boxing not so much but pro Boxing they are doing great in the lower class, really great.

Kickboxing they are doing good. Muay-Thai they are doing good.

What Japan needs is more time to develop and build elite MMA gyms. When Japan will produce the Naoya Inoue, Nadaka Yoshinari, Junto Natakani, Tenshin Nasukawa, Shohei Ono, Masanusoke Ono of MMA, Japan will be a leader in MMA, maybe, maybe not, but if they invest in MMA as much as they did in fellow combat sports, they could produce elite fighters.

 

[Blastbeat]

Sumo is sorely lacking headbutts. I feel like they'd integrate well here.

they do happen.....unintentionally.....
i remember one wrestler (i think it was Hakuho but i could be wrong) said that on one of the first days he was training, he saw two sumo collide and one's tooth came off and was lodged in the other sumo's forehead! brutal!

 

[Natural Order]

they do happen.....unintentionally.....
i remember one wrestler (i think it was Hakuho but i could be wrong) said that on one of the first days he was training, he saw two sumo collide and one's tooth came off and was lodged in the other sumo's forehead! brutal!

I figured it would be relatively common given how the fight starts and that violent clashing. One slight wrong move and a possible double KO lol

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Why do they hold 11 world titles in boxing and two of the top 10 p4p boxers right now? Why are they a top 5 wrestling nation in the world and arguably the best country at Judo? Why is it they have a strong kickboxing scene at lower weights but not MMA? I don't think it's this simple...They were stunted for years and far behind the rest of the world in MMA after Pride died and even during Pride there weren't many great Japanese CHAMPIONS, even Sakuraba was more of a beloved journeyman who took on challenges bigger than life. Gomi was a great one, Sakurai was a great one but really...the game passed them by and they haven't caught up. In the US, Russia, Brazil and even some European gyms...these guys have networks for cross training, with other top gyms. These Japanese gyms tend to have worse, much worse coaching staff and not much in terms of stables for training partners and sparring. They're just behind, they have the talent and resources but it needs to be built, they need a guy who takes an modern approach to MMA that builds a team out there and starts building generations of success.

because there's 120m of them, of course there will always be some who want to fight but not enough to cover ALL the combat sports. so they pick the Olympic ones because prestige for the Nation. that's been my whole point. their culture is not turning that 120m into 50,000 fighters. it's turning 120m and producing like 1000 fighters. the game passed them by because THEY DON'T CARE. that's my point, their culture is about entering the workforce, becoming salaryman, and living it out. people who keep telling me they have a warrior culture must think this is still the fuckin Edo period.

just like America, the culture has shifted and they are no longer producing that many quality MMA fighters anymore, because America is about the pump and dump, fast cash grab, youtube lifestyle tiktok meme bullshit. it ain't about we're the best anymore. don't believe me? look at pro wrestlers, they look like normal human beings now. because all that culture of being extra masculine macho shit that was happening in the 90s and early 2000s is gone, and it's a different time.

i'm not saying they're pacifists and they produce ZERO talent, i'm saying for how much people they got, it's an insanely small amount of people who WANT to fight.

China doesn't produce many MMA fighters either in comparison to their population. why? SAME REASON, their government's propaganda against MMA and their continued push for their cultural TKD stuff is a big reason.

i'm not saying it's the ONLY reason, but culture definitely plays a part. why else are places like Chechnya and Dagestan producing animals with a fraction of their population? why is there so many more Koreans in MMA than Japanese? all these places i mention have much smaller populations than Japan.

 

[Söze Aldo]

because there's 120m of them, of course there will always be some who want to fight but not enough to cover ALL the combat sports. so they pick the Olympic ones because prestige for the Nation. that's been my whole point. their culture is not turning that 120m into 50,000 fighters. it's turning 120m and producing like 1000 fighters. the game passed them by because THEY DON'T CARE. that's my point, their culture is about entering the workforce, becoming salaryman, and living it out. people who keep telling me they have a warrior culture must think this is still the fuckin Edo period.

just like America, the culture has shifted and they are no longer producing that many quality MMA fighters anymore, because America is about the pump and dump, fast cash grab, youtube lifestyle tiktok meme bullshit. it ain't about we're the best anymore. don't believe me? look at pro wrestlers, they look like normal human beings now. because all that culture of being extra masculine macho shit that was happening in the 90s and early 2000s is gone, and it's a different time.

i'm not saying they're pacifists and they produce ZERO talent, i'm saying for how much people they got, it's an insanely small amount of people who WANT to fight.

China doesn't produce many MMA fighters either in comparison to their population. why? SAME REASON, their government's propaganda against MMA and their continued push for their cultural TKD stuff is a big reason.

i'm not saying it's the ONLY reason, but culture definitely plays a part. why else are places like Chechnya and Dagestan producing animals with a fraction of their population? why is there so many more Koreans in MMA than Japanese? all these places i mention have much smaller populations than Japan.

Japan is a lame example to pick though. 120 million sounds like a lot until you realize India and China combined have 2.8 billion people and don't have have as much success as Japan in combat sports.

Japan is doing more than fine in the fight scene, when it comes to worldwide relevant sports, they just aren't interested in the UFC it happens. Like how the Thais dominate Muay Thai (obviously) and are some of the greatest strikers in the world but likewise don't care about the UFC.

The UFC and MMA is not relevant in much of the world.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

because there's 120m of them, of course there will always be some who want to fight but not enough to cover ALL the combat sports. so they pick the Olympic ones because prestige for the Nation. that's been my whole point. their culture is not turning that 120m into 50,000 fighters. it's turning 120m and producing like 1000 fighters. the game passed them by because THEY DON'T CARE. that's my point, their culture is about entering the workforce, becoming salaryman, and living it out. people who keep telling me they have a warrior culture must think this is still the fuckin Edo period.

just like America, the culture has shifted and they are no longer producing that many quality MMA fighters anymore, because America is about the pump and dump, fast cash grab, youtube lifestyle tiktok meme bullshit. it ain't about we're the best anymore. don't believe me? look at pro wrestlers, they look like normal human beings now. because all that culture of being extra masculine macho shit that was happening in the 90s and early 2000s is gone, and it's a different time.

i'm not saying they're pacifists and they produce ZERO talent, i'm saying for how much people they got, it's an insanely small amount of people who WANT to fight.

China doesn't produce many MMA fighters either in comparison to their population. why? SAME REASON, their government's propaganda against MMA and their continued push for their cultural TKD stuff is a big reason.

i'm not saying it's the ONLY reason, but culture definitely plays a part. why else are places like Chechnya and Dagestan producing animals with a fraction of their population? why is there so many more Koreans in MMA than Japanese? all these places i mention have much smaller populations than Japan.

There definitely aren't more Koreans in MMA than there are Japanese.

 

[NoSmilez]

Well a big part of the video is describing how the combat athletes in Japan stay in wrestling, boxing and judo because it pays a lot better than the MMA scene. They never make that transfer to MMA unlike in the US where wrestlers have no other career choice.

That isn't true with American wrestling anymore. They have RTCs and good wrestlers are getting a stipend just to workout there. It's also why we are getting less American wrestlers in MMA. We are getting more high school level wrestlers instead of elite guys.