Why hasn’t anyone stood up to the UFC and its business

[Qays Stetkevich]

Most other traditional sports are team sports. You wouldn't win a super bowl with JUST a quarterback. They have to spread the money around.

Mma is an individual sport. It's up to you and you alone to build your name value and make yourself worth the big bucks. If you're boring and people don't care to watch you fight when the money is mostly based off ppv buys, you're not worth big money.

Traditional sports also have cable networks behind them. Their model isn't ppv based.

"Mma is an individual sport. It's up to you and you alone to build your name value and make yourself worth the big bucks. If you're boring and people don't care to watch you fight when the money is mostly based off ppv buys, you're not worth big money."
I just want some nuance and compromise between the "let all fighters, instead of just fight, have to be a media attraction in order to make a living" and "CCCP wages". I love the sport, and am friend with lots of competitors, coaches, gyms, etc., A lot of these guys have the skills and charisma, and just won't make it because the sport is so lop-sidedly organized in regard to pay structure. I'd like the ultra wealthy to make a bit less, but still get credit for their skills/ . . .ugh...and social presense, while at the same time ensuring that future superstars aren't being deterred away from the sport to, say, boxing or anything else because the pay sucks despite their skill and potential. Not really a revolutionary take.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Many have but Uncle Goof is a jackass.

Thankfully more fighters are going to better organizations: Bellator, Rizin, ONE etc.

 

[The Penetrator]

You dont hear Conor crying about the pay. Fighters need to learn how to promote themselves and stop whining.

UFC should be the one doing the promoting lol, not the fighters...

They invested 10 times more money into promoting Conor than in anyone else in the history of the sport. Dana White saw potential money machine in him, gave him 4"2 Marcus Brimmage for his first fight, and invested shitton of money into promoting Conor, i remember Goldie saying how much hype was behind Conor, hype hype hype, every UFC employee mentioning Conor in every interview, i also remember UFC posted like a 10000$ award for a fan made poster for Conor in his 2nd fight, something they never done for anyone... Try google some old articles about Conor, when he joined UFC, youll notice how much hype was created around him, combine that with a very favourable matchups, Conor just needed to be a loudmouth and ggwp UFC you made yourself millions of dollars...

The idea that "Fighters need to stfu and promote themselves" is beyond retarded. It simply doesnt work that way, because promoting requires smart strategy, funding, marketing machienery, platform, and you cant expect young fighters to have access to any of that.

Yeah fighters that are interesting characters are more "promotable" ofcourse, but the org is the one that puts the marketing machine on... And the problem is UFC very rarely turns that machine on like they did with Ronda and Conor.

 

[bubbleboyjones]

Why are you telling me? I'm laughing at the guy who didn't know the answer to my question.

I am agreeing with you

 

[IIIIIIII]

Seems like every thinks the UFC is bad. Pays fighters bad and needs to be changed. Why hasn’t anyone come along and taken them down yet? And what would YOU DO, if you had billions to “reinvent” the sport of mixed martial arts.
Go.

people have. all the non-ufc mma organizations have been trying, but it seems the ufc has such a large lead and gap to the other promotions, that it's difficult for anyone else to compete.

 

[D'z]

I like it, despite Dillasnake.

 

[D'z]

I need to take issue with part of your premise before answering your question. Not everyone thinks the UFC is “bad” whatever that means.
Overall the UFC has been fantastic for the sport and in turn the fighters. While we can discuss what we think makes the most sense in terms of dividing the current revenues, there would be no such revenues without the UFC. They didn’t just stumble onto ESPN. It’s been a long journey with a lot of capital invested and a lot of brain power dedicated to strategy and execution. They did a phenomenal job. As much as I like and respect guys like Cerrone, Diaz Bros, Matt Brown, Condit, etc., they’ve basically just trained and fought over and over again for twenty years, but the exposure to those fights and the revenue they produce has skyrocketed over that time, almost entirely because the promoters set a vision for the company and followed through on it.

As for what I would do, I would be hesitant to rock the boat just when they’ve started getting top billing on SportsCenter and their stars are getting long interviews on the top sports talk shows (not to mention boxing lifers like Teddy Atlas and Max Kellerman are talking about MMA regularly because they basically have to). But one thing I do think I would do if I had the means would be to buy out the new owners (this would not be financially prudent since they’re going to need to make a significant profit to sell and they already appeared to pay a healthy premium) and allow management to move forward with the long term in mind and not worry about hitting short term financial metrics. Ideally getting a better model for fighter comp, focusing on healthcare and the long term financial stability of fighters, would be something I would like want to address.

I feel like the fans and the fighters made the sport what it is. And the UFC just played the shrewd middle-man. The demand for MMA and the success of the UFC was a snowball of happenstance. But the demand started well before the UFC began, as well as hardcore fans existed before sherdog. Sure the masses were unaware. But the demand was indeed growing as far back as SuperBrawl 1. I feel any promoter within the American market with decent financial backing could have done what the UFC/DW gets so much acclaim for. What they should get credit for is seeing it way back then. That mma could indeed be a success. But in all reality, every fan at the time already knew that. I was just a kid, but I remember thinking "Oh shit, this is going to put boxing and WWF out of business!" Obviously I was wrong, but the point is we always knew it could be a success. But again, this has less to do with what brand the fights are promoted under and more to do with the fighters themselves and their fans.

All that said, I can see this discussion going in circles sort of like "Which came first? The chicken or the egg?"

 

[MakeSherdogGreatAgain]

"Mma is an individual sport. It's up to you and you alone to build your name value and make yourself worth the big bucks. If you're boring and people don't care to watch you fight when the money is mostly based off ppv buys, you're not worth big money."
I just want some nuance and compromise between the "let all fighters, instead of just fight, have to be a media attraction in order to make a living" and "CCCP wages". I love the sport, and am friend with lots of competitors, coaches, gyms, etc., A lot of these guys have the skills and charisma, and just won't make it because the sport is so lop-sidedly organized in regard to pay structure. I'd like the ultra wealthy to make a bit less, but still get credit for their skills/ . . .ugh...and social presense, while at the same time ensuring that future superstars aren't being deterred away from the sport to, say, boxing or anything else because the pay sucks despite their skill and potential. Not really a revolutionary take.

It sounds like you're saying an "all fighters deserve a living wage" type of thing. Even at the base rate (last time I checked it was $12,000/$12,000) that's $24,000 to show and win in the ufc with no real name value. Assuming someone has made a name for themselves in the mma community elsewhere, they probably aren't getting the base rate. Say they compete and win 3 times a year. That's $72,000 per year. That's higher than the national average. Say they get 3 performance bonuses (last time I checked that was $50,000) in their 3 wins. That's now $222,000 in one year. 4 times the national average.

You can make a good living even as an unranked nobody at the bottom of the top promotion in the world. Fighters make a conscious decision to fight for a living. Nobody owes them anything.

That's like saying Metallica, at their peak, should've taken less money when nobody is coming to their show to see some nobody band from Nowhereville, Alaska so said band can earn more of a "living wage". The top guys have paid their dues and earned every penny. They've been where the bottom guys were. They worked their asses off and earned the big money.

 

[Kryptt]

Way, way too many fighters vying for a chance to get to a feeder org then to one of the bigger shows.

You can watch live events pretty much every day now... or least Wed thru Sun... Most these cards have 10+ fights and as high as 40.

We need more successful organizations that can create a competitive atmosphere. Otherwise those that get will only give what they must...

 

[ejlarson249]

If you are at all objective and have a few brain cells to rub together, think about how badly this makes the fighters look. The UFC is so bad, but look how dumb the best fighters in the world are, because they keep signing the contracts over and over.

 

[Black Paladin]

One comment: if the UFC used the money they have spent fighting against unions, Ali Act used in MMA, etc. on increasing fighter pay, they wouldn't have as big of a problem.

 

[avenue94]

It could end up taking longer, or there could be some sort of settlement sooner. The more important point is, that lawsuit is the most likely thing to change the UFC, even though it may stand only a medium chance of changing anything significant.

I agree it's the best (or 2nd best bet at this point), but we're almost a decade in and we aren't even half way through the judicial process.

There really isn't a very big talent pool for MMA compared to other sports, that's why these cards are always full of no names; not enough good fighters to fulfill the ESPN contract in terms of number of events.

Talent pool could get bigger eventually, but it's glaring because of how much ESPN/UFC force the issue. They need so many cards of a certain length it guarantees a lowering of standards.

People just don't give UFC enough credit for CREATING a market for MMA in the US.

Who created the Canadian mma market? If you think it was the UFC, you would be wrong.

 

[KayshaunCage]

Because it’s so easy to get jaded when you fuck around and get that 50k bonus. If you’re not a big draw or really a top contender but you’re in the UFC you just really wanna keep your place and not step on anyone’s toes. When you get the bonus you think it’s not so bad after all and if you’re good enough to crack top 5-10 your pockets aren’t really hurting as bad anymore

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

That's like saying Metallica, at their peak, should've taken less money when nobody is coming to their show to see some nobody band from Nowhereville, Alaska so said band can earn more of a "living wage". The top guys have paid their dues and earned every penny. They've been where the bottom guys were. They worked their asses off and earned the big money.[/QUOTE]
"


LOL, it's not like saying that at all. Nuance. You're intentionally lacking it.

 

[oscerthegrouch]

Sadly, if the ufc were almost untouchable when owned by the mafioso fertittas, now that they are owned by Disney, they are government level untouchable. They posses too much money power and influence to be dethroned as mma's tyrannical and unethical monopoly now. Especially in the corrupt and backwards world this has transformed into today.




If someone had the money power and influence to take them over they would need to start with getting rid of Dana and reforming everything. Someone like Scott Coker has had good intentions and fighter relations to do it but not the right strategy. You need to fight fire with fire and aggressively attack the ufc , pointing out their malpractices in the media, taking them to court constantly over any breach of ethics, and educating the masses of cashew fans into accepting other brands not named ufc. A huge cultural shift is needed, I doubt an American org like Bellator would be able to pull it off. Only something like pride had the power to do it but they were subverted into selling out unfortunately.

Ooo so only Japanese mafia could do it !!

 

[CerebralKnievel]

You would have to be a billionaire first with a taste for high risk.
Then you would have to start a MMA fighting organization that is transparent with it's finances, pays a big portion to the fighters, puts out high quality productions, and can continuously do that until you have a cable/streaming deal that will get your product to the masses.
IF you do all that AND get extremely lucky you have a small chance of overtaking the UFC before going broke.

The humor of threads such as this is that they always seem to fail to acknowledge the organization which already attempted this and failed: Affliction.

They had huge industry support, some big budget financiers, and were run by a team that genuinely loved MMA and wanted to challenge the UFC.

 

[wwkirk]

The humor of threads such as this is that they always seem to fail to acknowledge the organization which already attempted this and failed: Affliction.

They had huge industry support, some big budget financiers, and were run by a team that genuinely loved MMA and wanted to challenge the UFC.

But they barely had a run. Their example doesn't mean it's impossible to catch up to the UFC.

 

[Dan Torrance]

the supply, of fighters, simply outweighs the demand.

I mean stronger competition with the UFC should, in theory, drive up fighter's pay but there's not a very good incentive to compete with the UFC in my opinion.

I think it's going to come down to the sport growing more and more mainstream now that it's on ESPN and certain numbers being met then fighters pay considerations being considered from the top once it's coupled with pressure from the bottom. I just don't think that time is now.

 

[WHITE ANDERSON]

take them down for what? UFC isn't doing anything illegal

if i had to reinvent the sport, i would pay them less but make them think they're free by letting them keep their sponsored shorts and steroids.

 

[2004 account]

Ooo so only Japanese mafia could do it !!

Oh please the yakuza arent even a mafia compared to the monster that ufc had become. Thats like comparing a local street gang to big government. Great argument bro!

Theyre so powerful that they got subverted by the fertittas lol wow. I bet youre one of these "all pride fights were fixed and all fighters were on roids" guys huh?