Why hasn’t anyone stood up to the UFC and its business

[surrealworlds]

The humor of threads such as this is that they always seem to fail to acknowledge the organization which already attempted this and failed: Affliction.

They had huge industry support, some big budget financiers, and were run by a team that genuinely loved MMA and wanted to challenge the UFC.

To be fair they were derailed by Josh Barnett. They were only three events in and had their headliner cancelled 11 days out.
I don't know enough of the background to say why that tanked them but it seems obvious. Young promotion probably burning money and not profitable yet or barely, investors getting antsy, a few more good events and everything will be good and then BAM! The event gets tanked.
Shit happens.

 

[avenue94]

To be fair they were derailed by Josh Barnett. They were only three events in and had their headliner cancelled 11 days out.
I don't know enough of the background to say why that tanked them but it seems obvious. Young promotion probably burning money and not profitable yet or barely, investors getting antsy, a few more good events and everything will be good and then BAM! The event gets tanked.
Shit happens.

They also paid Megadeth a millions bucks for a few mins of performing. That definitely did not help.

Edit: Oh and the UFC also went out of their way to counterprogram by rerunning a fight night for free. Hard to say how much that hurt

 

[CerebralKnievel]

They also paid Megadeth a millions bucks for a few mins of performing. That definitely did not help.

Edit: Oh and the UFC also went out of their way to counterprogram by rerunning a fight night for free. Hard to say how much that hurt

I believe they aired Silva vs Irvin for one of them.

 

[DestinedAussie]

Seems like every thinks the UFC is bad. Pays fighters bad and needs to be changed. Why hasn’t anyone come along and taken them down yet? And what would YOU DO, if you had billions to “reinvent” the sport of mixed martial arts.
Go.

The issue is there is too much risk involved with taking on the UFC. Easier ways to make money with your money.

That said one and bellator are trying. Maybe one day we see that pressure force the UFC hand. It has seen them lose some talent that they probably would have kept at a lower rate like Bader, but for the most part they have just been an easy way for the UFC to get rid of aging stars who cost too much.

 

[DestinedAussie]

You don't see him having to nudge and threaten the UFC into letting him box as a cry for pay?

I love that it's Bjorn of all people. Pot meet kettle.

Which part of the Ali Act worries you?

Don King described the mindset of a promoter perfectly: ""My philosophy is that all fighters are two-dollar whores. Never fall in love with your fighter. My rule is to fuck the fighter before the fighter can fuck you. Never let the fighter become bigger than the promoter." "
People fail to see that it's a systemic problem in combat sports, not an individual one. It's just an industry more prone to abuse of employees than most.

It is capitalism. Extends well beyond that industry, just more visible in industries in the public eyes. I think it tends to be worse in individual sports because in team sports you have a legitimate market for services.

 

[avenue94]

I believe they aired Silva vs Irvin for one of them.

Yes, just checked and you got it. While I don't know how well it worked, it does show how big of a threat the UFC felt Affliction was at the time seeing as they tossed together a fight night card featuring a defending champion on less than a month's notice. It's actually a pretty ridiculous card in hindsight, there are 3 UFC champions and hall of famers are on it.

 

[avenue94]

It is capitalism. Extends well beyond that industry, just more visible in industries in the public eyes. I think it tends to be worse in individual sports because in team sports you have a legitimate market for services.

It's a certain bastardized version of capitalism, imagine how badly most markets would run if you had mma-style contract restrictions on labor. It would be ridiculous.

 

[ShreddinMMA]

You dont hear Conor crying about the pay. Fighters need to learn how to promote themselves and stop whining.

Isn't the point of a promotion to promote?

 

[BEATDOWNS]

Who is Bjorn Rebney

Bjorn Rebney is an American businessman who served as chairman and chief executive officer of Bellator MMA from 2008 until June 2014.

Rebney's passion was for Mixed Martial Arts, which made him decide to start a MMA promotion.[2] In his search for investors to fund his idea of a promotion, Rebney had sixty-one investor meetings within 16 months.[4] To fund these trips to meet with investors and fighters, Rebney spent his savings and took out a second and third mortgage on his home.[2] In Rebney's 62nd meeting with investors, he met executives at Plainfield Asset Management, who were familiar with the sport from prior meetings with management of EliteXC and the International Fight League who looked for capital to stay in business.[4] After a follow-up meeting in New York, Plainfield agreed to provide the capital, which led to the creation of Bellator Fighting Championships.[4]

In October 2011, television and media conglomerate Viacom purchased majority ownership of Bellator.[5] Despite the company no longer being under Rebney's ownership, he remained president of the company until June 18, 2014, when it was announced by Viacom that Rebney had been removed from his position and would no longer have anything to do with Bellator.[6] He was replaced by former Strikeforce president and CEO Scott Coker.[7]

*taken from wiki

 

[ShreddinMMA]

To TS point, it's not easy to start an org without talent. And in today's day and age, the MMA market has some existing big investors with a very strong hold on the market. Hard market to penetrate in the US, especially when "UFC" and "Ultimate Fighting" is as synonymous with "MMA" to the general population. Not a lot of incentive for someone to take that big of a financial risk.

The UFC has done well with acquiring entire orgs that pose threats as well. Not only did they take out a competitor and take their talent, but it also allowed them to control the narrative on those top fighters (think how many posters on this site alone base their opinion entirely on org).

Competing with them would take a majorly backed business who is able to do some ridiculous deals quickly to get top talent, while beginning to outpay the UFC's recruiting efforts. And they'd have to accept they'd probably need to operate on a profit loss for awhile to get up to the UFC's level, so it would take serious backing.

 

[snackgod]

Seems like every thinks the UFC is bad. Pays fighters bad and needs to be changed. Why hasn’t anyone come along and taken them down yet? And what would YOU DO, if you had billions to “reinvent” the sport of mixed martial arts.
Go.

why hasny any one stood up to bellator or how boxing is just as bad?

 

[snackgod]

It would take someone like Conor have it trending in public but he's getting paid so it doesn't make sense to. Jones could do it, but people are calling him scared of Francis, everyone who brings it up is automatically dismissed.

gsp tried an it failed so not even conor would do anything.

you do know jon wants no part of francis. he not fighting cause he being a diva not cause of money.

 

[ryun253]

gsp tried an it failed so not even conor would do anything.

you do know jon wants no part of francis. he not fighting cause he being a diva not cause of money.

Jones wants his red panty night which is understandable for a 14x UFC champion, GOAT MMA fighter, doubt he is scared, but there are risks in the fight business.

 

[avenue94]

To TS point, it's not easy to start an org without talent. And in today's day and age, the MMA market has some existing big investors with a very strong hold on the market. Hard market to penetrate in the US, especially when "UFC" and "Ultimate Fighting" is as synonymous with "MMA" to the general population. Not a lot of incentive for someone to take that big of a financial risk.

You can obviously create homegrown talent, but this is probably what hurts fighter pay the most in the long run. Entering the mma market is like entering a market where your competitor controls 60 or 70 percent of the raw materials you need to create your product. You need to be willing to lose a shit ton of money at this point to even have a chance of competing with the UFC.

 

[Phisher]

You dont hear Conor crying about the pay. Fighters need to learn how to promote themselves and stop whining.

LOL Conor has fake-retired like four times bump his pay checks up. He's fought with Dana and the UFC over pay since he beat Aldo.

 

[blacknblue104]

You dont hear Conor crying about the pay. Fighters need to learn how to promote themselves and stop whining.

Naw but you hear him complaining about the UFC blocking him from making the fights that he wants to make, something he would never have a problem doing in boxing. Enough so that he had to "retire" multiple times because he had no other leverage.

When you hear McGregor, Jones, GSP, Anderson Silva, Khabib, Mighty Mouse, the Diaz Brothers, Masvidal and every other top draw the UFC has ever had complain about their business practices, there are even bigger problems beyond just pay.

 

[oscerthegrouch]

Oh please the yakuza arent even a mafia compared to the monster that ufc had become. Thats like comparing a local street gang to big government. Great argument bro!

Theyre so powerful that they got subverted by the fertittas lol wow. I bet youre one of these "all pride fights were fixed and all fighters were on roids" guys huh?

one. a few fighters have come out and said in was in their contracts they wouldnt be tested....so you be judge...Two only person i remember hearing pride fights were fixed was Cheal so i take that with gain of salt .... big government really?? i bet you one of those guy that thinks Wrestling is real?!

 

[Rick890]

Seems like every thinks the UFC is bad. Pays fighters bad and needs to be changed. Why hasn’t anyone come along and taken them down yet? And what would YOU DO, if you had billions to “reinvent” the sport of mixed martial arts.
Go.

Can't wait to see the retarded responses, but reality is that Dana is doing almost everything right.

 

[DestinedAussie]

It's a certain bastardized version of capitalism, imagine how badly most markets would run if you had mma-style contract restrictions on labor. It would be ridiculous.

It isn't the contract restrictions are the problem to the market. The contract restrictions are a result of the market having little legitimate competition. You can be more restrictive when you are the only real option for top fighters.

 

[avenue94]

It isn't the contract restrictions are the problem to the market. The contract restrictions are a result of the market having little legitimate competition. You can be more restrictive when you are the only real option for top fighters.

It's a chicken/egg scenario. Contract restrictions increase barriers to entry. Reforming contracts is also one of the more viable fixes, even it that doesn't say a whole lot