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@Superzorro
- This is straight-up false. Plenty of fighters competed at both 170 and 185 during that generation. In fact, the four fighters being discussed (Silva, Marquardt, Maia, Okami) all did it. Others include Shields, Kampmann, Dan and Jason Miller, Palhares, Swick, Pierce (who lost to Mark Muñoz btw), Misaki, Menne, Trigg, Riggs... and the list goes on and on.
What are you even responding to here? We are talking about the UFC, not what they did prior to it or towards the end of their careers. People back then weren't jumping around weight classes like people do today for champ/champ status. They would normally come into the UFC and cut down to a lower weight class or stay at the one they came in as. They weren't jumping up in weight classes for title shots. The only one from that list who had a lot of success in two divisions besides Anderson (which was only 2 fights) was Damian Maia (because he received two title shots).
And apparently, you missed the part where I said "WW and LHW had all the wrestlers in the UFC during Silva's era." Most of the fighters you just listed above weren't high level wrestlers or wrestlers at all. And even some of those that were wrestlers just weren't good fighters. Comparing MW to WW or LHW back then is a joke when it comes to high level wrestlers. WW had GSP, Hughes, Fitch, Koscheck, Hendricks, Sherk, and Jake Shields. LHW had Jones, Evans, Cormier, Bader, Anthony Johnson, Phil Davis, Sonnen, Matyushenko, and Hendo. Before Weidman, MW back then had Sonnen, Henderson, Lutter, Munoz, and Boetsch. Those latter 3 weren't elite fighters and two of them never got title shots.
- It’s not only false, but it’s also ridiculous to even bring up that argument. Only a consummate shertard could seriously suggest that a professional fighter would turn down the money and exposure that comes with a title shot—let alone the chance to beat Anderson Silva, who at the time was widely regarded as the #1 pound-for-pound fighter—just because "it was rare" to move a division (which is not even true).
I don't care how Lutter got his title shot. It doesn't change the fact that he wasn't a top tier fighter in that division. He would have never received a title shot without that gimmick TUF season. I also like Matt Serra. It doesn't change the fact that Serra would have never legitimately made his way to a fight with GSP without the TUF angle either. No one is saying Lutter shouldn't have taken the title shot. But it reflects poorly on Anderson's competition when he's beating a guy who was gifted a title shot with a win over Patric Cote through TUF.
Jake Shields literally entered the UFC as Strikeforce MW champion and fought at MW in the UFC. He didn’t go through a tough weight cut for fun. He did it because the idea of Silva having a glaring weakness waiting to be exploited is a narrative created by simple-minded, brain-dead "shertards." It’s not something elite fighters or coaches would take seriously.
That's great and all, but Shields didn't fight Silva, he went down and fought GSP. You're literally proving my point that GSP fought way more high level wrestlers in his division than Silva. Also pretty funny to see someone with almost 14,000 posts on an internet website get mad and resort to name calling. Maybe you should try leaving your parents basement sometime and actually training? Maybe then you'd know what you're talking about?
3. You made a list of so-called "real wrestlers," yet not a single 170-185 pounder (besides Sonnen) from Silva/GSP’s generation is mentioned. Lol. Pretty telling.
I mentioned the ones that were top 10 or received a title shot against Silva, including Hendo, Sonnen, Weidman, Lutter, and Munoz. Compare that to the top 10 of the WW division at the time that GSP would face, which included Hughes x2, Fitch, Koscheck x2, Hendricks, Sherk, Jake Shields, and Matt Trigg. You could also add Condit who had a strong wrestling background, but I won't since he primarily relied on his striking. As for LHW, like I said, it had Jones, Evans, Cormier, Bader, Anthony Johnson, Phil Davis, Sonnen, Matyushenko, and Hendo. The fact that there wasn't depth at MW with wrestlers back then says more about the division than anything else.
Lutter got his shot at MW the same way Serra did at WW: TUF. No more no less. So what the fuck speak about lack of depth in comparison? Can you try to be a bit more honest, dude?
Côté got his shot as a short-term injury replacement for Okami. It happens.
Leites earned his shot after beating Marquardt (though controversial decision).
Dan Hardy got his WW title shot by beating Mike Swick. So it speak about the lack of what?
By the way Okami dominated Swick even more decisively, yet it didnt earn him a shot at MW as it did for Hardy at WW.
Shields got his shot after a split decision against Kampmann—a guy Marquardt knocked out yet Marquardt didnt get a tittle shot for it at MW.
And so on. All you’re doing is parroting "sherbro" clichés.
Ok? It doesn't change the fact that MW had a lack of talent at that point, especially top tier wrestlers. Those fighters you just listed, and your own reasoning (aka excuses) explain it better than I could. Compare those fighters you listed to all the high level wrestlers who legitimately made it to the top 5 that GSP and Jon Jones had to face and beat at WW and LHW. Its easy to trash Weidman, but everyone was using his style at WW and LHW, including GSP and Jones. MW didn't have that until Sonnen and then Weidman came around.
Adding "lol" at the end only makes you sound even more like a textbook "shertard."
Okami took a fresh Lombard down three times with single legs—something Shields failed miserably to do even once. He took Muñoz, Boetsch, and Marquardt down with double legs. He executed singles, doubles, and Greco-Roman throws on plenty of opponents—not just judo trips.
He is highly regarded by many fellow fighters and coaches as a very legitimate MMA wrestler. You’re full of shit, dude If you’re actually a black belt in judo/BJJ who has trained in wrestling, I can’t even conceive how you could be so wrong on so many levels.
That's some straight up MMA math right there. Maia also took down Sonnen, and Gustafson took down Jon Jones. Doesn't mean Maia and Gustafson are great wrestlers. Styles make fights. Weidman's style wasn't anything special for WW or LHW. Those divisions had tons of fighters who were getting title shots since the late 2000s who had high level wrestling and striking. At MW, you'd either get a good BJJ black belt with poor striking/wrestling, a striker (Anderson's specialty), or someone brought in who didn't deserve a title shot on paper. There weren't any wrestlers with good striking at MW until Hendo, Sonnen, and Weidman came around. All those types of fighters were either at WW or LHW. Fact is, put any of the top wrestle boxers at WW or LHW back then in there with Anderson at MW (hypothetically if all were the same size), and the outcome in some of those cases is the same as Sonnen out grappling Silva for 24 mins or Weidman finishing him. Rashad, Phil Davis, Fitch, Cormier, GSP, Bader, Koscheck, Jones, etc. Just comparing journeymen fighters like Munoz or Boetsch to those caliber fighters is a joke. Its not Anderson's fault that he had to fight guys like Leben, Leites, Cote, Maia, or Okami. But anyone with brain cells knows most of them had tailor made styles for Anderson to beat. These were fighters who weren't setting MMA on fire with their records or styles.
Like I said, pretty funny to see someone with almost 14,000 posts on an internet website who doesn't even train resort to name calling and getting mad. Just because you get mad about something and name call doesn't mean its going to be true. Try spending time training instead of posting, and maybe this would all make a lot more sense.
