Why doesn't Chris Weidman get credit for beating Anderson Silva?

[13Seconds]

I wanted to see prime Nate Marquardt rematch Anderson, I thought he had a shot at beating him with a bit more grappling focused gameplan. He seemed to mentally collapse in the first fight and had a nice run of wins at one point. Evidently, Nate got outgrappled himself by Chael and Okami before he could get that rematch.

This is also why I expected GSP to beat Silva if that fantasy matchup ever came to reality.

I remember thinking Marquardt would blast Silva in like 2010. Then Sonnen just manhandled him

 

[BowserJr]

Nah, Silva was terrified and it showed. He got hurt badly on the ground, couldn't get anything going on the feet and panicked as a result.

Weidman was a nightmare of a match up for Silva at any point in his career so it shouldn't be surprising that he was his Waterloo.

I agree that prime Weidman is problem for silva but look at the entire scenario. A wrestler good enough to avoid subs on the ground and good enough on the feet to be dangerous

Imagine someone like Charles Johnson winning 2 more fights then facing DJ and he finishes him in the 2nd

That's how unknown and untested weidman was. The matchup looked like another nothing opponent

 

[KoreanZawmbie]

Guessing this is in response to the fedor thread.

Anderson was 38, at MW that’s a death sentence. Just wasn’t the same guy.

Prime Anderson would be favoured to win that fight.

Nice revisional history. Considering AS had been undefeated and absolutely demolished Stephan Bonnar. AS was the clear FAVORITE against Weidman.

 

[KoreanZawmbie]

I agree that prime Weidman is problem for silva but look at the entire scenario. A wrestler good enough to avoid subs on the ground and good enough on the feet to be dangerous

Imagine someone like Charles Johnson winning 2 more fights then facing DJ and he finishes him in the 2nd

That's how unknown and untested weidman was. The matchup looked like another nothing opponent

Yea, Silva hadn't fought anyone with that kind of wrestling pedigree, nor someone as strong as Weidman.

 

[BowserJr]

Yea, Silva hadn't fought anyone with that kind of wrestling pedigree, nor someone as strong as Weidman.

Sonnen was a great wrestler but not much else. Weidman had goo striking too. Most other good grapplers with good or better striking had bad wrestling

 

[HHJ]

That's how unknown and untested weidman was. The matchup looked like another nothing opponent

Not to me.

I def didnt just think Weidman gonna run through Silva, but I knew he was a tough matchup for him, and guys like this were not common for Silva to fight. He was young up and comer but had all the right tools. People thinking he was another nothing opponent were fools, or just not paying any attention.

Untested? eh maybe, but unknown? If you were watching, you did know who he was, and what he brought to the table.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Nice revisional history. Considering AS had been undefeated and absolutely demolished Stephan Bonnar. AS was the clear FAVORITE against Weidman.

Of course he was a clear favorite but it had nothing to do with beating up Bonnar. Bonnar was a mid level guy.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Not to me.

I def didnt just think Weidman gonna run through Silva, but I knew he was a tough matchup for him, and guys like this were not common for Silva to fight. He was young up and comer but had all the right tools. People thinking he was another nothing opponent were fools, or just not paying any attention.

Untested? eh maybe, but unknown? If you were watching, you did know who he was, and what he brought to the table.

That's a big part of it, he wasn't that famous yet, but there were people in the know that defnitely knew he was a legit contender.

Regardless, Weidman was undefeated and challenging for the title for a reason.

 

[HHJ]

Of course he was a clear favorite but it had nothing to do with beating up Bonnar. Bonnar was a mid level guy.

It was absolutley expected of Silva to beat Bonnar, since he had already beaten Forrest and James Irvin with ease, and he wasnt above any of those other LHW's

 

[cade187]

I just checked his record. He got credit for the win.

 

[Vil7]

No no

they were saying that as soon as the result happened

They never wanted Chris to have the credit from jump.

I think prime Chris Weidman could take out a prime Silva.

 

[moreorless87]

I agree that prime Weidman is problem for silva but look at the entire scenario. A wrestler good enough to avoid subs on the ground and good enough on the feet to be dangerous

Imagine someone like Charles Johnson winning 2 more fights then facing DJ and he finishes him in the 2nd

That's how unknown and untested weidman was. The matchup looked like another nothing opponent

It felt like more than that at the time IMHO, Silva had looked like he was trying to avoid Weidman for awhile before and the style matchup was being talked about a good deal but most people felt Weidmans best shot was to win on the ground not standing.

 

[pankrat]

Munoz was a good wrestler too. But that means you have Sonnen and Munoz. Who else?

I would say your approach is reductionist and an over simplification of what’s going on. When people think greatest MMA wrestlers, they don’t include Demian Maia for a reason. If you ask people who has better wrestling between Maia and Munoz, they’re mostly going to say Munoz for a reason. Wrestling is a specific style. Just because you take someone down, it doesn’t always mean you have better wrestling.

In my opinion, your approach is like using stats in a video game. You give a score for "striking", a score for "wrestling", a score for "BJJ", and there you go.....It's no so simple in real life, mate

Muñoz, along with many others with great wrestling credentials, was not a better MMA wrestler than Okami or Maia. By the way, Okami took Muñoz down with a double-leg.

Boetsch, a four-time state wrestling champion and a member of Maine Wrestling Hall of Fame, was outwrestled by Okami, who doesn’t have any kind of formal wrestling credential. Additionally, Boetsch failed to take down Lombard, whom Okami managed to take down three times (not with judo techniques, but with wrestling techniques).

There are highly credentialed wrestlers who don’t know how to effectively apply wrestling in an MMA context. On the other hand, there are fighters with no wrestling credentials whatsoever who excel at applying wrestling techniques in MMA—GSP being a prime example of this.

These are just a few of countless examples that debunk your simplistic, video-game-stats-like approach.

 

[pankrat]

If @Superzorro displayed a good load of sherbro science, this fellow @TheGreenMachine took it to a whole other level. What a display of sherbroism you delivered dude, holly shit.

^^^This right here. WW and LHW had all the wrestlers in the UFC during Silva's era. Back then, most fighters didn't move up in weight classes. It was pretty rare.

1. This is straight-up false. Plenty of fighters competed at both 170 and 185 during that generation. In fact, the four fighters being discussed (Silva, Marquardt, Maia, Okami) all did it. Others include Shields, Kampmann, Dan and Jason Miller, Palhares, Swick, Pierce (who lost to Mark Muñoz btw), Misaki, Menne, Trigg, Riggs... and the list goes on and on.
2. It’s not only false, but it’s also ridiculous to even bring up that argument. Only a consummate shertard could seriously suggest that a professional fighter would turn down the money and exposure that comes with a title shot—let alone the chance to beat Anderson Silva, who at the time was widely regarded as the #1 pound-for-pound fighter—just because "it was rare" to move a division (which is not even true).

Jake Shields literally entered the UFC as Strikeforce MW champion and fought at MW in the UFC. He didn’t go through a tough weight cut for fun. He did it because the idea of Silva having a glaring weakness waiting to be exploited is a narrative created by simple-minded, brain-dead "shertards." It’s not something elite fighters or coaches would take seriously.

3. You made a list of so-called "real wrestlers," yet not a single 170-185 pounder (besides Sonnen) from Silva/GSP’s generation is mentioned. Lol. Pretty telling.

I'm not trashing Silva's record, but in no way are Patrick Cote, Thales Leites, and Travis Lutter elite fighters. But they managed to get shots at Silva because the division was pretty thin back then. When those types of fighters are getting title shots, it speaks to the lack of depth in the division.

Lutter got his shot at MW the same way Serra did at WW: TUF. No more no less. So what the fuck speak about lack of depth in comparison? Can you try to be a bit more honest, dude?

Côté got his shot as a short-term injury replacement for Okami. It happens.

Leites earned his shot after beating Marquardt (though controversial decision).
Dan Hardy got his WW title shot by beating Mike Swick. So it speak about the lack of what?

By the way Okami dominated Swick even more decisively, yet it didnt earn him a shot at MW as it did for Hardy at WW.
Shields got his shot after a split decision against Kampmann—a guy Marquardt knocked out yet Marquardt didnt get a tittle shot for it at MW.

And so on. All you’re doing is parroting "sherbro" clichés.

Okami wasn't close to being an elite wrestler in MMA terms lol.

Adding "lol" at the end only makes you sound even more like a textbook "shertard."

Okami took a fresh Lombard down three times with single legs—something Shields failed miserably to do even once. He took Muñoz, Boetsch, and Marquardt down with double legs. He executed singles, doubles, and Greco-Roman throws on plenty of opponents—not just judo trips.

He is highly regarded by many fellow fighters and coaches as a very legitimate MMA wrestler. You’re full of shit, dude If you’re actually a black belt in judo/BJJ who has trained in wrestling, I can’t even conceive how you could be so wrong on so many levels.

 

[Rapa]

Bcs in first fight he won bcs anderson was acting like clown and in second fight leg break happend

 

[BowserJr]

Not to me.

I def didnt just think Weidman gonna run through Silva, but I knew he was a tough matchup for him, and guys like this were not common for Silva to fight. He was young up and comer but had all the right tools. People thinking he was another nothing opponent were fools, or just not paying any attention.

Untested? eh maybe, but unknown? If you were watching, you did know who he was, and what he brought to the table.

He looked good in his fights but before silva his most impressive win was Munoz who was ok. 2nd to that was Maia and Nate looked much better than Weidman.

For sure I thought he'd be a tougher matchup than Maia or Leites but most people felt he hadn't faced enough competition to warrant the shot. He kinda lucked out of not facing Vitor or Belcher because of random events.

Lets say he beat trt Vitor and then fought anderson.

I dont think anyone including Silva would've underestimated him.

 

[pankrat]

He looked good in his fights but before silva his most impressive win was Munoz who was ok. 2nd to that was Maia and Nate looked much better than Weidman.

For sure I thought he'd be a tougher matchup than Maia or Leites but most people felt he hadn't faced enough competition to warrant the shot. He kinda lucked out of not facing Vitor or Belcher because of random events.

Lets say he beat trt Vitor and then fought anderson.

I dont think anyone including Silva would've underestimated him.

What did have Belcher for Weidman? A punchers chance thats it

 

[BowserJr]

What did have Belcher for Weidman? A punchers chance thats it

Hind sight is 20/20. At the time we didn't know that. And trt vitor had and incredible punchers or high kick chance. That's my point. No one knew if Chris would be that good.

Even after beating Silva it was flukey and again hindsight shows silva was past prime since the 1st sonnen fight.

Chris then fought non trt vitor and it was not compelling going on cuz of it. Once he beat machida there was no doubt

 

[RockyLockridge]

Weirman’s sudden collapse after ban of IVs for hydration andUSADA was pretty sus.

His celebration after Anderson shattered his leg was bush league. The original KO was an all time moment tho pros to him for that. Just didn’t leave much of a legacy besides that .

Completely in your imagination

 

[NextGen]

Because his victory is more remembered for Silva’s vanity being his downfall than Weidman actually winning the fight.