Why do the best white boxers come from Eastern Europe?

[zapataxiv]

I'm not really concerned with what he classifies himself as. I'm just confused as to why a Mexican of european descent is somehow less white than a Canadian of european descent.

I get the culture/ethnicity thing. Just saying if canelo walked down the street in the whitest part of Connecticut nobody would say he looked out of place

Probably they would as dresses like a Mexican cowboy speaks broken English, and is one of the highest paid athletes in the world.

Also you don’t know him from Adam how can you just because he happens to have more dominant light colored skin means he is devoid of indigenous heritage. Look at his older brother for example, he looks much more stereotypically Mexican.

 

[zapataxiv]

The Klitchko brothers.

I will say Marciano and Tyson were swinging some pretty heavy hammers though.

Purely power though you think they lacked harder punches than shavers?
And I am pretty sure listones jab was harder than the kilts

 

[I am your real dad]

Purely power though you think they lacked harder punches than shavers?
And I am pretty sure listones jab was harder than the kilts

I think they had better power, yes.

They are much heavier though.

 

[zapataxiv]

I think they had better power, yes.

They are much heavier though.

We can disagree on that.
But do you attribute their success purely to their power. Or is it a more complex picture?

Also Eastern Europe certainly shaped them but would wlad have had the same career without his American coach?
An American and product of the American boxing culture?

 

[I am your real dad]

We can disagree on that.
But do you attribute their success purely to their power. Or is it a more complex picture?

Also Eastern Europe certainly shaped them but would wlad have had the same career without his American coach?
An American and product of the American boxing culture?

Ok.

Probably more complex. I just spoke less complicated mostly out of laziness.

I don't think Wlad would have had the same career, no. American style seems to rely less on chin and more on craftyness.
And it worked great for European boxers like Wlad and Lewis. But, the high output and chin European style seemed to work well for guys like Vitali and Calzaghe. (I put eastern Europe and western European fighters together)

Both training styles seem to be working for Fury at the moment.

 

[Twelvepack]

First of all I didn’t say you couldn’t refer to Canelo as white due to the level of melatonin in his skin. What DeJuelez was referring to was “White” as in the concept of a white dude hence the “too slick” part. I was agreeing with him because of his cultural background you can’t classify him as a “white guy”. I think it was pretty obvious that’s what the context of that conversation was. And why I was saying it’s pointless to say he was white (his amount of melatonin).

Because what does that even mean then. It doesn’t even have relevance to the thread because you can’t argue that all the great white boxers come from Mexico. What you could say was a great Mexican boxer with white features comes from Mexico... which is an almost pointless post

melatonin? Lol

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

particulary Ukraine.... but in general, it seems like the best white boxers come from Eastern Europe

yes you have great western white boxers like Fury, but it seems like the only great white fighters are those from the Eastern Bloc, is there a reason for this?

Because most boxers from Eastern Europe belong to a culture that has historically placed more of an emphasis on amateur boxing which gave them their foundation. For instance, just over a third of the men that became multi-Olympic champions are from former Soviet or Soviet satellite states; Papp, Kulej, Lagutin, Saitov, Tishchenko, and Lomachenko. A fairly high number of Eastern Europeans are well-schooled and started boxing relatively early. Due to that it's not uncommon to hear that an Eastern European fighter had an extensive amateur career with hundreds of bouts to their name.

It's mostly cultural just like we're seeing in wrestling with the Caucasus region's presence. Their culture places a heavier emphasis on excelling in certain sports particularly combat sports (that are driven by their popularity there), their amateur programs (schools) are well developed for those sports because they've invested considerable resources into them, and generally their discipline and work ethic tends to be high which their culture has helped to shape.

 

[kingmob6]

Because Soviet Union left all these ex-Soviet counties with the best boxing training available anywhere in the world; look at Cubans who were gifted with all the sports programs through Soviet education and training and Chinese that stole a lot of Olympic sport programs as well. You would have seen a lot more fighters come out during the 90s if they 90s there weren't so fucked up and full of chaos, many athletes just turned to crime and became gangsters.

Eastern Europeans are also much tougher and aggressive generally speaking.

 

[SandisLL]

Yes, tournaments format required good gas tank and toughness, if you have one day guy a, next day guy b, if won, after few days guy c. For example 2-3, sometimes 4 bouts in 1 week.
---------
Bouts under belt, yes, for example boxrec shows you some 22 years old guy with 2-0-0 and some 28 amateur bouts.
In reality he does have also 120 amateur KB bouts under belt, for example.
Imagine difference in experience " real life " vs just pro record numbers?
This doesn't mean that he is superstar, it is just answer why he fights very smoothly for such a Green guy.

 

[SandisLL]

Also soviet system used motivation trough formal rankings.
A boxer according to his fight record and his opponents ranking he had won get " grading ".
3rd, 2nd, 1st sport class, master of sports candidate, master of sport and highest: master of sport international class.
Some former soviet countries are keeping this system.
Yes, even if you are not local champ, you still do have motivation move up; 3rd class to 2nd etc.
---
For Judo for example too, fights record and sport class system, the same with wrestling etc etc.
Sport class had meaning when someone applied to university, jobs in sport field etc.
Boxing coaches usually had these ranks; master of sports candidate, master of sport and highest: master of sport international class. Not rarerly also diplomas and even degree from uni in sports field + qualification " trainer xxx sport " . Then 5 years fulltime uni eq.

 

[MrFeeny]

I don't know.

they hit hard though

 

[MoreKane]

Wlad defintelly hits harder than alot of the great HW's in history

 

[deucesarewild]

Because they have a ridiculous boxing program over there, and white people aren't in poverty so they box WAY less than they did 80 to 100 years ago.

 

[MoreKane]

Slavs seem like natural warriors compared to Western Europeans

 

[ZOD66]

best cardio

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

1. Their trained boxing style is VERY technical (not necessarily flashy, but that's different), same with Cuba whose boxing is from soviet coaches
2. They fight A LOT growing up (and after grown up, it keeps going) so they have a lot of experience and knowledge in the field already they are half-way to experts in fistfighting and dealing/with punches, often against many opponents. Nothing like experience. A work trade allowing only 1v1 fights, which enforces actual safety rules is almost too good to be true
3. Their culture is a lot more brutal and unforgiving than most places
4. It's one of the more reasonable and stable careers in lots of areas over there

 

[hiphopnazi]

Nah Usyk is a funny fucker, it's just English isn't his first language. Timestamped, and it's worth watching until the end.

The dude can dance, he'll own the dance floors in those euro clubs.

 

[vapor&dust]

Isn't Canelo white?

It depends on the political argument. He can be Mexican or one of those white hispanics if he kills a black person who was casing homes to rob.

 

[vapor&dust]

The culture is different from Western Europe or the US. They still value strong men and women select for that. Remember they were behind the Iron Curtain for 45 years so they weren't exposed to the more negative influences in the West. There is still a divide between West and East Germany. It's almost like the mentality was frozen in time. One thing I noticed about Russians is they have European culture without the pussification I'll call it. There's nothing wrong with defending yourself. Somehow in the West it's become walk away or call the police. In many situations that just doesn't work.

In the West it's more mixed than it used to be. You have women who like strong men but you see a lot more women who like the guys who dye their hair purple and all that. In the US too it's just not as popular as it used to be. You see more Western white champs and higher ranked fighters in MMA which is more popular among that demographic now. There are also a lot more avenues to make money in the US. In those countries (and others) you have to be really, really smart or have connections to make good money. You can't imagine the corruption. In the US you don't have to be super smart you can make good money just with hustle.

 

[PHATV]

It simply economics. There are no really, really poor Americans anymore. Not starving in ghettos without shoes and shit with no welfare or EBT and shit like that, I mean. Abject poverty.
I've mentioned this many times over the years. Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union and Siberia, whatever. You still have incredibly poor people in those conditions, and fighters have historically come from poverty. I'd cite Pac as a perfect example. Absent abject poverty, he may not have been a fighter. It was his path to a better life. So we don't see as many white or black fighters in the US coming from that angle anymore. Very few, actually. I guess you could argue Appalachia is still that way in many parts, but that was never really a source of too many fighters over the years, historically. But there were VERY poor whites (and blacks) in the US at the turn of the last century all the way through probably the '60s and into the '70s, even. Then the welfare state became much more "robust", here.