Why do the best white boxers come from Eastern Europe?

[Rob-G]

Probably because there are more poor white people from the Eastern Bloc then say Western Europe and traditionally poor people (of any race) are more likely to be drawn to boxing. They have very good amateur programmes particularly in Ukraine which is where Loma and Usyk came up.

They work their tits off. Grind, grind and work harder than most of their western counterparts (not all, just on average)..

I think these are the 2 posts that nailed it. A combination of both of these.

——-

The work ethic and dedication can’t be stressed enough. And even with their tough upbringings, have we ever seen any news stories about Ukrainian fighters getting DUI’s? Beating their girlfriends? Turning to hard drugs? I see nothing but dedication and well mannerism from the likes of the Klitschko’s, Usyk, Lomachenko. Boxing seems to be their lives and they are so focused

 

[Hypetrainhipsta]

You’re right.
People look at this wrong because they don’t understand that race is a social construct. Biologically there really isn’t a difference between the races. Not to mention that Latino isn’t a race but an ethnic group..

So the only way to honestly discuss this is in a honest way. Is talk about canelo culturally. Culturally he is Mexican as he was raised in Mexico, speaks mexican Spanish, and has been raised as and identifies as a Mexican.

I agree with you, that's why I wouldn't call Sumbu Kalambay an Italian Boxer, he moved their and got the citizenship, but he was born and raised in the Belgian Congo/Zaire and was a product of their developmental system.
That said, we are all part of the human race, but there are some differences, we've adapted to our enviorment in different ways. One example would be how people from Tibet, the Andes and Ethiopia have all adapted to the same condition (living at high altitude) in different physiological ways.
Source: https://www.researchgate.net/public...tterns_of_adaptation_to_high-altitude_hypoxia
Don't get me wrong, I don't support any kind of racist BS, but people around the world have adapted to their enviorment in different ways.

 

[zapataxiv]

I just meant, when referring to canelo as white you said race is a construct and White doesnt mean anything using is culture as evidence. But a french fighter also has his own culture and ethnic group....yet I doubt anyone would deny his whiteness.

Do you consider criollos white? Such as guillermo del Toro

Well plenty of people do consider French, Italians, Eastern Europeans as off white or “lesser whites”.
Also see this is not contrary to what I posted. And is showing where you misunderstood DeJulez . White is a word but is not a singular concept or a singular group. It varies depending on where you are if you are American when you say white it is usually the description of people who are Caucasian and have no strong distinct ethnic influence besides mainstream Caucasian American culture. That is the broadest and the. You can bring in physical features. Others use it to refer to people from Britain and that area and are products of that culture, or go even bigger and say all Europeans. Etc..

So I would classify a French man as white depending on what contex you were trying to classify him as. If you just want to say the French guy looks white than sure. But if we are talking about a bigger point the I will disagree.

Because these are all fluid and influx constantly through history they are constructs. That have biological relevance aside from the amount of melatonin present in your skin.

This goes back to what I originally said it’s pointless to talk about what he looks like and say why can’t I just call em like see em. That sis a dishonest argument that tried to ignore history, culture, and many other factors. I am not saying you have bad intentions by making that argument, but your stance has been used as the justification for some of the worst atrocities in history.

As for whatever point you are trying to make about Guillermo del torro I don’t classify him as white as I don’t think about what his race is as classifying race is a fools game because it is a construct. It’s like trying to argue if unicorns can fly or not.

 

[Fluffernutter]

Possibly Becuase boxing is still a sport available within community centers in that part of the world.

 

[I am your real dad]

Isn't Canelo white?

Yeah, he is ginger. That's as white as white gets.

I do realize he is Hispanic but what most people don't realize is Hispanic means ancestry from Spain. And Spain is in Europe.

 

[revoltub]

.

So I would classify a French man as white depending on what contex you were trying to classify him as. If you just want to say the French guy looks white than sure. But if we are talking about a bigger point the I will disagree.

.

So then what's wrong with canelo being white depending on the context. Also you said that you would classify the French fighter as white, yet before when referring to canelo you said white "doesn't mean anything".

So, does it only not mean anything when referring to white Hispanics? No offense just see some contradiction here

 

[I am your real dad]

I just think eastern Europe produces the best boxers period. Doesn't really matter what color they are.

 

[revoltub]

Yeah, he is ginger. That's as white as white gets.

I do realize he is Hispanic but what most people don't realize is Hispanic means ancestry from Spain. And Spain is in Europe.

Exactly

 

[zapataxiv]

I agree with you, that's why I wouldn't call Sumbu Kalambay an Italian Boxer, he moved their and got the citizenship, but he was born and raised in the Belgian Congo/Zaire and was a product of their developmental system.
That said, we are all part of the human race, but there are some differences, we've adapted to our enviorment in different ways. One example would be how people from Tibet, the Andes and Ethiopia have all adapted to the same condition (living at high altitude) in different physiological ways.
Source: https://www.researchgate.net/public...tterns_of_adaptation_to_high-altitude_hypoxia
Don't get me wrong, I don't support any kind of racist BS, but people around the world have adapted to their enviorment in different ways.

Yes I don’t dispute that
But that is different from how the argument is used. Many people try and use it to argue for a nature vs nurture argument (a misunderstood and poorly taught concept) to try and extrapolate things like skin color or minor adaptions are responsible for intelligence, behaviors, capabilities etc..
the thing about the adaptions though is they are present in all peoples who live in extreme high altitudes so it isn’t a purely Tibetan feature. It’s an adaption that pretty much all animals on the planet can develop when they spend hundreds if not thousands of generations in an extreme high altitude climate

 

[zapataxiv]

Exactly

But most Latinos don’t classify ourselves as Hispanic and have campaigned to stop being classified as being Hispanic for years.
Would you argue that the culture in Latin America is the exact same as it is in Spain? Is the Spanish in Latin America the exact same as it is in Spain?

 

[zapataxiv]

I just think eastern Europe produces the best boxers period. Doesn't really matter what color they are.

Who has Europe produced that is as masterful as charley burley, flashy and brilliant as sugar Ray Robinson and Leonard, marvelous as hagler, as refined as Lopez?

 

[revoltub]

But most Latinos don’t classify ourselves as Hispanic and have campaigned to stop being classified as being Hispanic for years.
Would you argue that the culture in Latin America is the exact same as it is in Spain? Is the Spanish in Latin America the exact same as it is in Spain?

I think you are confused. Hispanic and latino are 2 different things.

 

[zapataxiv]

I think you are confused. Hispanic and latino are 2 different things.

Yes but do you know if canelo classifies himself as a Hispanic or a Latino? Also do you not know that in the United States for example they often group all people from Latin America or from mestizo roots with mix being some arbitrary amount of Spanish(pre dominant) and indigenous American to be Hispanic?

 

[Hypetrainhipsta]

Yes I don’t dispute that
But that is different from how the argument is used. Many people try and use it to argue for a nature vs nurture argument (a misunderstood and poorly taught concept) to try and extrapolate things like skin color or minor adaptions are responsible for intelligence, behaviors, capabilities etc..
the thing about the adaptions though is they are present in all peoples who live in extreme high altitudes so it isn’t a purely Tibetan feature. It’s an adaption that pretty much all animals on the planet can develop when they spend hundreds if not thousands of generations in an extreme high altitude climate

Yes, but the interesting thing is that different groups of altitude natives have adapted to the same condition in different ways. Tibetians for example lack the absurdly high Hgl levels that altitute natives in the Andes have to compensate for the high altitude.
Overall I agree with you, many people use the argument the wrong way.

 

[zapataxiv]

Yes, but the interesting thing is that different groups of altitude natives have adapted to the same condition in different ways. Tibetians for example lack the absurdly high Hgl levels that altitute natives in the Andes have to compensate for the high altitude.
Overall I agree with you, many people use the argument the wrong way.

But once again while the Andes and the Himalayas are both extreme altitude they aren’t the exact same place so you wouldn’t expect both to adapte in the same exact way.

 

[I am your real dad]

Who has Europe produced that is as masterful as charley burley, flashy and brilliant as sugar Ray Robinson and Leonard, marvelous as hagler, as refined as Lopez?

You don't need to be masterful, flashy, marvelous or refined when you are swinging a bigger hammer.

 

[zapataxiv]

So then what's wrong with canelo being white depending on the context. Also you said that you would classify the French fighter as white, yet before when referring to canelo you said white "doesn't mean anything".

So, does it only not mean anything when referring to white Hispanics? No offense just see some contradiction here

First of all I didn’t say you couldn’t refer to Canelo as white due to the level of melatonin in his skin. What DeJuelez was referring to was “White” as in the concept of a white dude hence the “too slick” part. I was agreeing with him because of his cultural background you can’t classify him as a “white guy”. I think it was pretty obvious that’s what the context of that conversation was. And why I was saying it’s pointless to say he was white (his amount of melatonin).

Because what does that even mean then. It doesn’t even have relevance to the thread because you can’t argue that all the great white boxers come from Mexico. What you could say was a great Mexican boxer with white features comes from Mexico... which is an almost pointless post

 

[zapataxiv]

You don't need to be masterful, flashy, marvelous or refined when you are swinging a bigger hammer.

So which European swung a bigger hammer than Frazier, foreman, Tyson, wilder, Liston, Louis, Marciano.

 

[revoltub]

Yes but do you know if canelo classifies himself as a Hispanic or a Latino? Also do you not know that in the United States for example they often group all people from Latin America or from mestizo roots with mix being some arbitrary amount of Spanish(pre dominant) and indigenous American to be Hispanic?

I'm not really concerned with what he classifies himself as. I'm just confused as to why a Mexican of european descent is somehow less white than a Canadian of european descent.

I get the culture/ethnicity thing. Just saying if canelo walked down the street in the whitest part of Connecticut nobody would say he looked out of place

 

[I am your real dad]

So which European swung a bigger hammer than Frazier, foreman, Tyson, wilder, Liston, Louis, Marciano.

The Klitchko brothers.

I will say Marciano and Tyson were swinging some pretty heavy hammers though.