Why do people here hate the GOAT?

[MitMcl]

They don't hate him. They hate his fan base.

 

[Mixfight]

Because the same ZUFFA marketing money and power that went into building hypejobs like Brock and Ronda went into smearing Fedor and his accomplishments.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

What? Crocop and Arlovski are counter punchers? What?

Hunt beat Wanderlei and Crocop because they both stood with him. How did Fedor beat Hunt? Oh yeah, same way the MW beat him via submission.

This post only goes to show just how far done the road of dishonestly/ignorance the anti Fedor camp has gone, Crocop wasn't an exellent counter fighter? really? he could push forward as well but the left straight and bodykick counters were a key part of his game. The same with Arlovski, many of his knockdowns came via countering opponents and the one vs paul buentello was so quick the crowd didn't even see it and thought the stoppage was BS.

In both of those fights the key to Fedor's victory was the ability to slip fast counters moving forward(and block Mirkos mid kick) so the idea that Machida(who wasn't a big name during his era anyway) would present some unique challenge is highly questionable. Obviously he is a threat to anyone but style wise I see that as a bad fight for him since when you get inside his counter range I don't think he has the boxing defence of Mirko nore the defence from his back.

As far as Hunt goes Wanderlei didn't just stand with him he also took him down but Hunt was able to survive there and the match against Fedor was 2 years after that point. By Hunts own admission its post Pride that he went off of the rails training very little and giving away easy wins up to the McCorkle fight where the UFC offered to pay him off and he turned things around. Hunt vs Fedor was comfortable in top position keeping close, Hunt vs Werdum was confortable in top position keeping close, Hunt has been in serious danger off of his back vs Bigfoot and Struve and Fedor/Barnett are much better sub fighters than they are. The difference is that todays Hunt is quite a bit slower standing and no longer has the cardio to wear people down as vs Wanderlei and Mirko.

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

Prime Fedor beats anyone.

No. He doesn't. People dislike him because of his delusional fans. Fedor is the HW goat but prime Fedor would not be UFC champ today.

 

[HHJ]

No reason to hate him. Just the time is over. He should not continue to fight,and if he does,no more ufc talk after something like that.

 

[HHJ]

t prime Fedor would not be UFC champ today.

see that i could disagree with. I dont see any reason why he couldnt be champ today if he was in his prime. None of those guys at the top now really seem like they are impossible for him to beat.

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

see that i could disagree with. I dont see any reason why he couldnt be champ today if he was in his prime. None of those guys at the top now really seem like they are impossible for him to beat.

We can agree to disagree. Fedor was what, 33 when Werdum subbed him? It was right after he beat Arlovski, and no one said anything about Fedor looking off, there were no signs of him not being "Prime". Fedor was at the top of his game and Werdum has improved significantly since beating him.

Fedor was the king of his day, and you can't compare eras as far as who would win a fight, you look at dominance during their era and competition they faced. That makes Fedor HW GOAT.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

We can agree to disagree. Fedor was what, 33 when Werdum subbed him? It was right after he beat Arlovski, and no one said anything about Fedor looking off, there were no signs of him not being "Prime". Fedor was at the top of his game and Werdum has improved significantly since beating him.

Fedor was the king of his day, and you can't compare eras as far as who would win a fight, you look at dominance during their era and competition they faced. That makes Fedor HW GOAT.

GSP retired before he reached that age and his fans were telling us he was on the decline before that so its hardly a Pride only issue with fighters getting past their best by there mid 30's. The whole culture of fighters staying near there best form into their late 30's is ultimately down to PED use, Sonnen, Randy, Hendo, Vitor, Anderson etc all known steroid users.

Sorry but your wrong as well with nobody saying he looked "off", his own coaches commented that he was losing speed and showing less commitment by the Arlovski fight and people commented on it still more after the Rogers fight.

I think you very much can compare eras in terms of who would win a fight and indeed you can make a strong argument that HW today is a weaker era than Fedor's time. Your free to hold a different view but saying you'd favour him over anyone is not a sign of extreme fanboyism and that you take offence at it is a very clear indictation of your own bias that's so obvious in almost everything you post on these forums.

 

[bjpenngoat]

mma fans are the worst fans in the world. Not one basketball fan anywhere in the universe was shit talking and destroying Jordan when he was a Wizard. Not one boxing fan ever uttered a bad word about Ali even though he lost 3 out of his last 4. Not one hockey fan every talked shit about Gretzkey when he was on the Blues then the RAngers. But in mma, when an all time great is in the twilight of their careers and they dont perform like they used they are fucking cans and were never any good. mma fans are the absolute worst fans in any sport by far,

 

[eiyuu]

mma fans are the worst fans in the world. Not one basketball fan anywhere in the universe was shit talking and destroying Jordan when he was a Wizard. Not one boxing fan ever uttered a bad word about Ali even though he lost 3 out of his last 4. Not one hockey fan every talked shit about Gretzkey when he was on the Blues then the RAngers. But in mma, when an all time great is in the twilight of their careers and they dont perform like they used they are fucking cans and were never any good. mma fans are the absolute worst fans in any sport by far,

Most of those denigrating Fedor these days are trying to get to Fedor's fans.

And it looks like you were gotten to.

 

[The Reed]

Ducking UFC and cock teasing us all about it to fight cans.

Yep, ducking UFC where he could have fought a green Cain, colon-less Brock and his sloppy seconds over better fighters in Strikeforce.

 

[DIABOLUS]

Yep, ducking UFC where he could have fought a green Cain, colon-less Brock and his sloppy seconds over better fighters in Strikeforce.

You're right, these other fights sound boring as fuck too.

Fedor vs. Overeem
Fedor vs. Carwin
Fedor vs. Brock
Fedor vs. Mir
Fedor vs. Cro Cop 2
Fedor vs. Barnett
Fedor vs. Nelson
Fedor vs. Hunt 2

 

[J. Bernie Cunningham]

mma fans are the worst fans in the world. Not one basketball fan anywhere in the universe was shit talking and destroying Jordan when he was a Wizard. Not one boxing fan ever uttered a bad word about Ali even though he lost 3 out of his last 4. Not one hockey fan every talked shit about Gretzkey when he was on the Blues then the RAngers. But in mma, when an all time great is in the twilight of their careers and they dont perform like they used they are fucking cans and were never any good. mma fans are the absolute worst fans in any sport by far,

If you think those 3 didn't have MANY detractors at those time periods, you weren't around or weren't listening.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

You're right, these other fights sound boring as fuck too.

Fedor vs. Overeem
Fedor vs. Carwin
Fedor vs. Brock
Fedor vs. Mir
Fedor vs. Cro Cop 2
Fedor vs. Barnett
Fedor vs. Nelson
Fedor vs. Hunt 2

It helps to know what your talking about, Barnett was signed with Affliction and due to fight Fedor then he was signed with SF and could potentially have fought Fedor in the GP. Overeem was also signed with SF and would likely have fought Fedor if he'd beaten Werdum.

There could have been some decent matches for Fedor in the UFC of course but outside of it he could/did have faced Arlovski, Werdum, Sylvia, Barnett, Overeem, Bigfoot, Cormier, Sergei, etc. Career wise fighting with the UFC in 2007 or 2009 might potentially have kept his winnign streak going a bit longer though.

 

[DIABOLUS]

It helps to know what your talking about, Barnett was signed with Affliction and due to fight Fedor then he was signed with SF and could potentially have fought Fedor in the GP. Overeem was also signed with SF and would likely have fought Fedor if he'd beaten Werdum.

There could have been some decent matches for Fedor in the UFC of course but outside of it he could/did have faced Arlovski, Werdum, Sylvia, Barnett, Overeem, Bigfoot, Cormier, Sergei, etc. Career wise fighting with the UFC in 2007 or 2009 might potentially have kept his winnign streak going a bit longer though.

I'm particularly talking about his post-Strikeforce career. UFC purchases Strikeforce in March 2011. Fedor loses to Hendo four months later in July 2011 (his third straight loss).

Around this time Zuffa was starting to poach many of Strikeforce's fighters and absorbing them into the UFC roster. But Fedor doesn't transition over because his stock has fallen and he could not leverage a good contract. So he goes on to fight Monson, Ishii and Rizzo and retires.

Three years later, there's all that buzz about him coming out of retirement, his interest in signing with the UFC, only to have him sign with Rizin and fight Singh.

Fedor may have fought the best heavyweights in Pride and Strikeforce, but he's been ducking them ever since and there's plenty of fresh matchups for him. The landscape of the division has changed, and all the best heavies are in the UFC now.

But Fedor hasn't followed suit.

 

[bjpenngoat]

If you think those 3 didn't have MANY detractors at those time periods, you weren't around or weren't listening.

I wasnt around for Ali but I was around for gretzky and Jordan 100%. Nobody called Jordan a can when he could barely score 20 a night on a shit fucking team that went nowhere. Nobody even calls him our for his terrible exec moves come to think of it, but thats another story. Gretzky was treated like a hero for 3 years here in nyc. He played only 1 year with Messier I think here in ny and I went to a bunch of games and the fans would cheer loudest for Mess but right behind him was gretzky. There were not any forums like there are today but the sentiment around the country was probably like there is an all time legend playing and trying to win good for him. Unlike in mma where the sentiment is that yif you lose or in this case win a decision in not so spectacular fashion you are a fucking can and were never any good. The fans of this sport are absolute shit.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I'm particularly talking about his post-Strikeforce career. UFC purchases Strikeforce in March 2011. Fedor loses to Hendo four months later in July 2011 (his third straight loss).

Around this time Zuffa was starting to poach many of Strikeforce's fighters and absorbing them into the UFC roster. But Fedor doesn't transition over because his stock has fallen and he could not leverage a good contract. So he goes on to fight Monson, Ishii and Rizzo and retires.

Three years later, there's all that buzz about him coming out of retirement, his interest in signing with the UFC, only to have him sign with Rizin and fight Singh.

Fedor may have fought the best heavyweights in Pride and Strikeforce, but he's been ducking them ever since and there's plenty of fresh matchups for him. The landscape of the division has changed, and all the best heavies are in the UFC now.

But Fedor hasn't followed suit.

Zuffa didn't extend the deal with M-1 after the Hendo fight, likely because they were collapsing SF at that point and didn't want to co promote as before.

Is deciding that you don't have the form/motivation to carry on "ducking"? especially if you've already lost your spot at the top?

 

[xMisterxMikeX]

Dude was severely overrated his entire career.

Silva would have matrixed him in under 5.

Please elaborate more on how he was "overrated." His loses and later career fights are not evidence of being overrated. Other wise all the past greats were. No one stepped away from the game on top. Aside from GSP who many would argue really lost his last fight.

 

[Joe_Armstrong]

It's like first seeing Jordan play for the Wizards

 

[greenskye23]

This post only goes to show just how far done the road of dishonestly/ignorance the anti Fedor camp has gone, Crocop wasn't an exellent counter fighter? really? he could push forward as well but the left straight and bodykick counters were a key part of his game. The same with Arlovski, many of his knockdowns came via countering opponents and the one vs paul buentello was so quick the crowd didn't even see it and thought the stoppage was BS.

In both of those fights the key to Fedor's victory was the ability to slip fast counters moving forward(and block Mirkos mid kick) so the idea that Machida(who wasn't a big name during his era anyway) would present some unique challenge is highly questionable. Obviously he is a threat to anyone but style wise I see that as a bad fight for him since when you get inside his counter range I don't think he has the boxing defence of Mirko nore the defence from his back.

As far as Hunt goes Wanderlei didn't just stand with him he also took him down but Hunt was able to survive there and the match against Fedor was 2 years after that point. By Hunts own admission its post Pride that he went off of the rails training very little and giving away easy wins up to the McCorkle fight where the UFC offered to pay him off and he turned things around. Hunt vs Fedor was comfortable in top position keeping close, Hunt vs Werdum was confortable in top position keeping close, Hunt has been in serious danger off of his back vs Bigfoot and Struve and Fedor/Barnett are much better sub fighters than they are. The difference is that todays Hunt is quite a bit slower standing and no longer has the cardio to wear people down as vs Wanderlei and Mirko.

When you said mw i initially though you were talking about how melvin mercilessly know him out cold