Why do people fly the confederate flag other than to show people they are racist?

[nixkid]

It's not as simple as you make out.

"slavery as an institution, is a moral and political evil in any country."

Robert E. Lee

Not that Lee never owned slaves, because he did and thought that they were better here then in Africa until they could be "civilized "

Lincoln wanted to free the slaves but not at expensive of the Union.

The war for the south was about states rights and at that time slavery was a really big part of states rights.

For the north the war was about preserving the union and the raw materials from the south.

So even the battle flag of Virginia can have more than one meaning depending on who is looking at it.

For some it represents the courgette of their ancestors.

Pickett's charge.

And for others it only represent a very sad time in the history of the country.

As far as flags this saw more slaves then the US.

Robert E. Lee was one person. The views expressed in that one quote weren't exactly typical at the time among Confederate politicians. Look at what Jefferson Davis said or Alexander Stephens.

But I'm not a founding father apologist. They were racist pieces of shit (just not as shitty as the Confederates) and aren't anywhere close to deserving of the deity status some people want to bestow on them.

 

[tramendous]

I did it to say: Fuck America, I'm not buying into this expansionist police-state, I want a return to state power, not federal, proud of my heritage, etc etc etc - basically to join a group, but a group that I stood out in bc not many other people were in it (basically none were when I did it at like 13-14). I don't wear those shirts anymore, but I don't regret wearing them and I have never been an actual racist, even if I did study the science behind racism. I found it unconvincing and unhelpful, ultimately, and continued to wear the flag as a political statement.


Another reason why it's crazy (and, I think a credit to me) that I'm anti-Trump. I have the history and demographic/political beliefs basically of a complete Trump supporter right now, but the dude is a fraud and a traitor. It just is what it is. I cannot support that.

America would be over taken by other world powers if they did this. You dont stay on top without bashing heads and once you climb the ladder of 'superpower', you spend the rest of the time kicking people who are trying to climb it. They wont forget all those kicks btw lol

 

[nixkid]

Yeah, you're wrong about that. Plenty of historians have documented southern motivations for fighting. Preservation of slavery was among them, but was far from the only one, especially among the rank and file. Every single Southern soldier was responsible to some extent for upholding slavery. I'm not absolving them of that responsibility or trying to remove that issue from the causes and goals of the war for either side. But when isolating individual human beings, it is a well known phenomenon that personal motivation in war diverge, greatly at times, from the macro political motivations held by the leadership.

It's an obvious and non-controversial point. I'm surprised a person as well informed as yourself is arguing against it.


Getting the poor to fight for the South was in fact a tremendous challenge for the Southern states, and shortage of troops due to mass desertion eventually doomed their cause.

Again, I have no sympathy for the Southern cause. I'm a big admirer of Lincoln, Grant, and Sherman. But you are being unnecessarily narrow in your historical analysis, seemingly due to how it relates to this modern day issue, which is a temptation the historian must resist.

Its irrelevant either way. Its hard to prove the motivations of dead people but even if 100% of the soldiers were fighting for something other than slavery it makes no difference. Every war known to man has been defined by its political motivations not its soldiers personal motivations. I'm sure there were many German soldiers who did not fight to kill Jews. Maybe they fought for the glory of Germany or because they were conscripted and had no choice. Many of them fought bravely and died. Yet I doubt anyone would accept this reasoning for resurrecting the Nazi flag as a symbol of German pride.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Its irrelevant either way. Its hard to prove the motivations of dead people but even if 100% of the soldiers were fighting for something other than slavery it makes no difference.

1. It's not that hard. Lots of them kept journals or spoke to journalists. It's not like they let behind cave paintings.
2. It does make a difference. The meaning a battle flag may have to a set of people might very well correspond to what they thought they were fighting for.

Every war known to man has been defined by its political motivations not its soldiers personal motivations. I'm sure there were many German soldiers who did not fight to kill Jews. Maybe they fought for the glory of Germany or because they were conscripted and had no choice. Many of them fought bravely and died. Yet I doubt anyone would accept this reasoning for resurrecting the Nazi flag as a symbol of German pride.

Well, we've reached Hitler. It had to happen sooner or later.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

I really don't understand this debate, or whether or not this woman is totally wrong, but it seems like the opposition to the flag seems to be based largely on perception. So I appreciate the mere act of standing up against convention.

 

[fuzzy]

But I'm not a founding father apologist. They were racist pieces of shit (just not as shitty as the Confederates) and aren't anywhere close to deserving of the deity status some people want to bestow on them.

SJWs must learn an important truth about history.

You can't judge the past through the lens of the present.

 

[nixkid]

1. It's not that hard. Lots of them kept journals or spoke to journalists. It's not like they let behind cave paintings.
2. It does make a difference. The meaning a battle flag may have to a set of people might very well correspond to what they thought they were fighting for.

But is it a representative sample? Also, the fact that they didn't write (or that no one has found a letter in support of) does not prove absence of support.

Well, we've reached Hitler. It had to happen sooner or later.

The analogy holds though. You can't just brush it off with "lol Hitler".

 

[nixkid]

SJWs must learn an important truth about history.

You can't judge the past through the lens of the present.

They knew what they were doing was wrong but did it anyway.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

PLAYBOY: Wasn't the Civil War fought to decide whether this nation could, in the words of Lincoln, "endure permanently half slave and half free"?


MALCOLM X: Sir, many, many people are completely misinformed about Lincoln and the Negro. That war involved two thieves, the North and the South, fighting over the spoils. The further we get away from the actual incident, the more they are trying to make it sound as though the battle was over the black man. Lincoln said that if he could save the Union without freeing the slaves, he would. But after two years of killing and carnage he found out he would have to free the slaves. He wasn't interested in the slaves but in the Union.

http://www.malcolm-x.org/docs/int_playb.htm

 

[Buck Swope]

There's truth in this.

 

[GORETAURO]

When I moved to the middle of the Bible belt from the west coast it was the first time I actual seen a confederate flag being flown in real life. I literally thought I had just drove up on the Klan and almost shit my britches.

What the fuck does the confederate flag supposed to represent in modern times other than "I'm racist and want everyone to know "?

Why do people rock Black Lives Matters shirts other than to tell people they are racist?

 

[My Spot]

Out of ignorance and "southern pride."

 

[Buck Swope]

Out of ignorance and "southern pride."

I think you need a "time out".

Up the game.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

'southern pride' or not, I've never personally met someone that rocks it that isn't racist

and I went to HS near the confederate capitol in VA, trust me I saw that shit daily

I of course then rocked a Union Flag like a G my last two years of HS on the car

I back winners

 

[spin]

Nooooo. Symbols mean whatever people in New York and Los Angeles say they mean.

This is just as juvenile and ignorant as the OP.

 

[Sir Galahad]

It's useless to even get into this here

Racism, blah blah blah

Johnny Reb forever.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

But is it a representative sample? Also, the fact that they didn't write (or that no one has found a letter in support of) does not prove absence of support.

Good question. I cannot answer definitively.

The analogy holds though. You can't just brush it off with "lol Hitler".

I'm not sure it does hold. I mean, there is similarity in that both the Confederacy and the Third Reich were ugly. The Confederacy, despite its supposed commitment to states' rights, made it impossible for any state ever to choose to prohibit slavery or to emancipate slaves. But if there is anon-white supremacist group out there using the Nazi flag, I'm unaware of it. There are non-white supremacist groups that use the Confederate flag. Another way to look at the same analogy is recognizing that everyone who uses a hammer and sickle logo doesn't necessarily want to set up a totalitarian state that murders millions of its people and sets millions more to slave labor in the GULAG. The USSR flag is entirely as indefensible as the Nazi flag, yet many people who condemn the Confederate flag routinely accept that those who display the Hammer and Sickle aren't interested in murdering entire classes of people.

http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxQTEhQUExQWFhUXFyAbGRgYGB8cFxwfGx4dGxobHBgbHykgGhwlHB0ZIjEiJSkrLi4uHB8zODMsNygtLiwBCgoKDg0OGxAQGywkHyQvLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLP/AABEIAJAAwAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAbAAACAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAEBQMGBwIBAP/EAEUQAAEDAgQDBAYGBwcEAwAAAAECAxEAIQQFEjEGQVETImFxMoGRobHBBxQjQlLRFTNicrLh8CRTY3OSotJDgpPxFjTC/8QAGgEAAgMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBv/EACYRAAICAgICAwABBQAAAAAAAAABAhEDITEyEkEEFCLwUXGBscH/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/AHLclTZKlHSkJTJ2SmYSPC5pg2qggIjzoxFcxttmhChR+3PX97lPT5U5FuZpRiG/t5//AB5Gxn302TtTYIV5srvJkmLcp/H4XNhTjDpMb0oziAQbbTGvSbavCwvvTdo2ikNCDPMobfUe0SJAEKBGoD8NwbUsd4TZ0iEd8L1FcAkjpGoR51Z8Sgk1AGlb6t+VNTaE0VPNMhQ6AShztJutSdxFhpC7Hxpi0ylDaEpLgKQATChsIBECQfGaF/RncQhLwGh8uemQSDJKYCh/QqL9Fu9gy0MRJb1yvtCNWsQJ73Lxqy21yRpBGY4Vp1QUpx4uRCiUq5bX09OtBO5G1uh5W15Khe4tbbaiMXgHtKCHtOgL1Er9KSCm9za4rtrHoCUJU6QoIAKgQZN5N4oU5L2FIFOTtpPcxEggekqL3kRG16HzgIZI0O9oCmSU2jwNzTfEqdWE9hq9G5HmNgAeWqlvFGUOvqBQg+hHeBEXPh41KM23tkZRVGh8N5W0WyAho95MlxAUSLzBPOKrf0mBtCmUM6ezQXRpQe6FK7Iiw5zqNG4HFLlxKFpSUhtSR2KnlAlRk6EkchYjaqPxACH3UWACuSOzE6Ukw2fRvTgtkZPRJkY1OhJ6bDncWt66tOKZC0AJSgK0SJgQRcnqBSLhF7TJEeluR0FWXs0pKiANSu8o9eR+VVzk/IlBaPE4b7NIUoqUACkJkJSfG/e35+yuA2lJKuZNz5n+dSdsZB5EbVy8nSi/Miq7ZYjk4i+kTBE79KERiJWRO1t/OjQZVe5qdKU/gHroGEYK486zD6Yv12H/AMs/xVqOHIjkPKsv+mM/bYf/AC1fxVbg7kZ9TTynbz+dT66p2GzV2UDtCQSncC99tqtiFSYquUWmEXYa42nROkTG8X2POh3BNxa1Z7nXHGJZdebBaKUKWACm8JAiSDv3q0HCq1IBO5jbbYU5xceRJ2EtYdKgNYB6VG2RHt+NVTibjB3CPFtLTa0hAVKlEG82taKe5HjC8w26UhJWmSAZA3tNJxaVkk/QQ8b0KtRAt0pJxFxOrDvdmGNfdnV2mn3aT8adYJ3W02uI1ICo6SJiaHFpAmLsdhQUwiytSTz5Tq3mgsPhNKDISTrJJJ+7A2MdZr44kS4FLAOsx3DttExHroHPczCWF94KKiE28fUKN0LTYozfG3IZSF8rJ29f8qqrrpBlYIjcH4VsPDmGaDaClI2FH5tkWHeuppM2kxVP2Ix00bV8S1aZkGXZrpUmb9Y2HQVbsuxHaq1Js32RvP3xHOZojMuHGACAgAxvVa4Pd7JbzRIiOZAuJG586uxzU9oozYXj5GuYPy5IJHeER0A2pfjCXX16UEqUdpJiAJuaLxOAWftErbgGdGsFXMkwK84Xc1YkK/YUfhWjypWjJWx/kGTqaTKyCSdQA222k041iQf+311w4k92fx/nUqWzHksms7dlqVHEnveG1DY9RPZA9fyoxLdyOp5er86BzNQSWySABNyYFopDC2m+9NQcQ4R9TQ+rKShwkXVtA3+VFYfvXEEFMyK9fxAQe9N+gJ28qFp2FnWXNqCEhZlYSNR6mLn21mv0xfrcP/ln+KtPwTwWkKGxn41l30vvBT7AG6WyD6zPrq7B3Iy6h2KwjgXhilC9IWmYB6i5EbWNaKfSNRBY0mCPbUxcO1VybYRVGQ8WYdSsTiAAoypeyJ3SjnWs4JR0J/dHwprhkyB5Cl0SBPSnOXkkgiqM7+ksJ+tmY/VJ38zVx4LXODYjbRb20/wrAKbgG/MTUYgEgAASeXjRKVxSGlTszvjlAOKG127TM7Grhkv/ANdnwbSP9opkcOhV1ISrxKQeW1QBMWAiLQKTlaoEqdlUbxhIxZKp7JagLARCQoc771XcyxBxSEp1StL6IATAKVIubEixUKsC84OrEggfY3HeN5Kt+7bblND4fHJdS24YCkK9AKndKCCZAO1o8aU24q6J4kpSphrGfDDgo7IkpFiVpTPkOlNW+LEqY7TR97SQCJBiedtqIxGEZeR2i0plI3i9qCVg2uxCO7BcJUB+6I91YW4y9HVipLVi3F5shYAGoFW2pJHv2qkZM4UOuuQCUWVqmLmOXka0JzJWWWyUSJ5EmPZyqukIwzKVEA9otZUCQL3UJkGbA+2tHx5RTaRn+TCTjb9BWPWnskkoQStAVPSU6rW/KhuBcOrtdWk6dBhR8xRbuJ7ZpAQ2TqSY03CYgRMcxHsqXhTLFNrClD7pEnfceNam/wA0c2raLE3mAlIAJlakdLpnUfK1BqzNZCDATL5bPOUib35momMK5qbMKAD7qjy7pJg+RkV8zlaylsGO6+XL/hOqPjVYwfF4klGLBUSE2H7O20XqPPU/2ZP+V8QKPXlUpdSVR2ypsLgbes2rjNMOF6GibaQmRvA/9U9AhlkyhobH+Gn+EUPnWZIZUkLIEydyOk7A9aMwCAIA5CPl8q+xuUtPKCnEaikQLnnf5VFDa0c5IvUyg9RPtNZj9LCh9ZQBHdSQYM9N+larh2UoSEpEBNh6iazD6YMMlL7KkiCtBUo9TMT7AKtwdxS6kzOXJU+ZCSe0JBi9nP5VqCUCDVHxGUuErhsx2hVuPxE/AVdUzSybFAzTi/Dp+tOylJk7x+ykXrTMnbBZbn8CfgKpWfZHiHMStbaFFJUNjEwE8p8KumVoKWmwREIFvIClN6HHkq/F2FUp+UrUkaEzBI5np8aecMSMM3JJIBEkzsSNzS/iDAOOOakpURpAkeZprkDKkMISoEEarH940nwNLZVuNlr7eEuuJ+z2StQHnCTVoyRM4ZokkkoTJJvtuZ3qv8V5W85iNbY7oQBud79PA0/yZooYbSqxCACPIU5cIUVtiBzBtasRZX2hIXc3Eq26c9qCfy5tttZQFjUUGVTy7oifARap8RkCjiH3e2I1hQSnvQmee3rHnQ+HyVTOFcQpeswSTe1hEE+ulLa5JxtPgc5dmIS0dV5Ok+z8qVpGGSvu2UDqIKVC/LfrQ/DWPbXqQ4YJi3Ui004+qoT3u0KhyBMgRWNxrR1YStWc5xiiR6pjzqXCvtISCVpMJmw6JCjHqM0mOI7V5KRcahPkOXro0MKLaUd3V2ZA/wBCU/EGrsEElZk+TkbdDJ/HtiRcmF8j9wJJ9yhUGCzBA5KMLSnlHfm+/LnXGKbMFXKHB/rCAn+E1ClCgNW47RKhHRIv8qupGMYpzfUpsBs95xbZkgRoN1bGQY28aHbzlakMnQka3S0RJMJEwoWFzpFvGoIKC0pRsl5aj5LPd+Vc4fCKSlmdkOFSo5i8R409CPcRmbpbxBGgFtZSgwTbclUm+/hXHELziUBTZhYbkGLTzt7a4+qKW26ARLq9QkxY7A9DQ2O4ZeUH/wC0FQcMp1TCBJMAT4xaNqaqw2W7LBKQSZOkTVb44z93DupS3aW9XpR94jp4U44bwy2kBC1lZSkDUdz7ar3H+UvPPILTSljsoJTFjqUYuOlLHXlsHdFvylRUy2VGSUAk+Juax76R8WteLUlRJCCUpk7CE7W6zWw5UjSy2k2IbSD7B86x36RcI4jFqUtJAWVFJP3hMSKswdxS6mvrWAD/AF1os1kWNbT9Ydt/1lnb/ENa8iqpqhxdhAeSAJKfbUKTbwisl41bR9cfKj94SImITWkZM6Owat/00/AUShSsE7Y0W4E2kDzNepM3EGazv6Qo+tICv7pPKfvGrZwaB9UZjaPmaHHVjT3QwefSk3UAehI+ddtiUyDI/raqRx6yXsQlpCCtZQIAEnn4iB41aspWGcO02qApKACAeYEb0NUgT3R4pxsmNaZmCNQm1jaar+fZgpbiWWY0buK6pFoHmfhTDEKSgK0JAKpJjckz86qjWK78gwvcTsd5Ht5VCTpWafjY4zyKMnRDjeHVSFJPP1ii8JkaranFkdNh7aJYzbSClaDvNuXqNff/ACBKZhJJjqBVDnJnU+lOL2jvMMCAjSDo/aTYjxr7hnNVqCUOjUsK06haQfvEcrR7aT43M1OET6gNv51JgGwLnad/mauxqUY7Mfy4QSSv9f6LUxmiSAShQkN2t986QN+RBmpGManUlF/TUgW5p+VDs6VgahaUmZudJlN+cGu8PgftEKQsHS6papse/eB1qZz2qOmMW24GhuHAYkbxEzXyMW3pQrUIUqBPM3kUHgME4g4QKHoJXr8J0xUTbZ7LDgi/ayZHgr+VMiOG9BWtIIJSRI6U1fKEpUVEJA3JMAes0gwC/wC0YnzT8DTLiPEdnhnlxOlMx12pVuhk2BxCHFHs1oXAE6VAxO0x5GiHcwabMOOIQbGFKAMXvc1WOBcz7Zb6tOmAgbzzX4VBxpjltvAJb1At79JKrbU1HdCvVluYVIBFxAvyvtFZj9MmJQt7DhKkqKW1BUEEg6tjGxrS8qP2Lf7if4RWM/SBiteJUIjStwf7o+VWYO4S6mqO8M4Y6lKQdRJVM8ySSfaabhU7VVneJXZUkMJgKKQe0MkAkTGmrG0qq5XexqvRBiOGcM8pS3WwpS95JvyovDYRKUJAEAJAHkLVUM944dw762ktNqCFAAmegN4PjVuwb5W02ogSUA22uKck62CpkyspZdOtxAUoW9QuPiahxBbw6CEiEpmBPW9KM/z15hzQ2ERpBOoEnn0IEUozHNlYhtOqNUEqjaT4eVRadAqsZ/pMrk7Da3TxobEYklMiw6/ePl086V4dZgx4VC1rKUoJsVKHkB3fkabJIY4dzYm0gk+Q8Tcnak+YYL7PtBfmR8x0NO3YG22mBQ+Fu2el6YWIMveUsLBVPdATO4JkR5V5IKYMg6Z90H3xTPL8oK3g0j7xAnwP5CaY8WZcGsRAEBWmPJQFv9hqmMv1/f8A4dWONS+Ltu9sr4ZtqAi1EYOUpUR6jRScMQAnpv6uVeONEIItvVpyrJGsRBOixHLkfypkMd3SefKetJlN9zWfwj3GuW1HRoNwFi/t91DQ0WPBZqFEBW8b0WxikFKDqEGwkxJja/Oqgw9cmbAmmWr7LDFP99J8N599JEZFl0iTbemCEgmCAQeVVjLVRicSD1R5c5p/nStLK1AkQmZBiNudDWxBBZSCdKQJHIATHlvuanZZSZKkgmYuAbVXOGsQVOOgrUoaUkSZiSoGhOLcQ4lwBC3EjRPdJA3N7c6KYeizNmwHgKzL6Z0gPYaABLZJjmdW9aRlklltRvKEyfUKyP6TFkvpkqN1xJJi4sJ2FW4OwpdS3O5SskkBRvO9tyat7BgX3qAuQk1K0bCarkwSopef8LYl595aFAJWru94jkkfGaueXNlDLaTuEJHuFe/pNpBhTrYI3BWAR5ibVIyZSIuIFOTbVMEkiscWcPOPrLqVBKQiDP7Jnaq7gnAApAtER5RA99XHifMUhlbQV9oQJA3APP3VQ8U6O6sCSfSA5g8xTWxpHeBxsesKkcu7cf14UbgFEJaP+HJ8zc+80gx6QF6knulK78vRFWLBEaEnomPfQ1Q0TnFDUPKPhUrSdI8N6TrfIJBIkfKjGMdYUgLDw42WkP4siwSQ2eqtvcfjUGfu68LhXlyezKm1kb2skknyP+qo2sGUBguKKmnEFwpCykJA06pG25HnUGNy5JS6QoHsktkqA9M/i8BbxrNjf6R6BYY/Wu91/ELchwziCsqXqSbJtEgHf30fi2wUx41Mhrukzfl7KgzUhKR4mtMnZ59KiBDmvSgDa5+NC4xcJ1RMqn4j519l6zLh58vhUD6NSUJ/ET8qiSR0CSmQO6Nh1POnnCGIBC0ETpII9Yv8KRY96AlCLxueVcZWmFI1TIINhJsdh500hSL59XSFKUB3lWUesbfGmGLwqH21NL9BYgwbxVdyzGlx10SdIiEqEEG4IjfpTvNH1MsrcQNSkpkJIMH2XpU7Io8yrI2sLIZBAUBMnoSfnX2P4aYxDiXXQdSRpEHoZ+JpVk3Eql9orEhLSUaQDChM6p3N9htXWY8ULbI0oKUESCts336LEC2xvT3Yk1RYMONKEoGwSB7LVkv0qZU2w+2psGXUqWuTzKrx051q2Xq1toUdykExtcXism+lHHLcxCUqEBvUlJgiRMzff1VZg7hPqdYINOLbKQJ7REjp3uRNawt8CATuqB5nYVVWuEMNp+94nVzNBZrmK2+yaXdTLt1fiAHdPrBPspNeT0C1yF4vhZx94rHZBJK7qXGrug/hMEJv66es8JP2GIcUVR3UNKUgJCYkiO8qJTciKtuUsoLaNTbumA4mFd0lY0yOercxPOmOHxOpQWpLwcAIUUjZKjIER+xPUeutjxQaMnnKzNHuEcX2hlxDgjSlSzCzpISU90ELhRAt4Uhz3htzDBKXSnvFWgpJP6sgKHLYqAta9bmzgWoUkNKTrCiqwnvqJVcDeb+ys0+mJ0B3BHQUpV20z1UnDHbkeR8QaryY4qNothJ3syrMDAInc9L7GnuViW1yLEUkzgqkCLTan2VtwlXQg1nb/JoXIHmnpAjmJ9o/kaiwz0JA50Xj0AoQfwyDS3DpuCeV/DrUXwOnZo+Nw7aShzEEaENhLbY3URc+qSPZQ2NZbcaceYISCgh1s/dMggjwmq+rFLcOpwyYjy8hyFRvvFMkevym4rHB/o9b9SX1+26/wEtYgG1+QHSIArvN3O4iRefhFL8A4ZuZ2AvtvbwrvMRdsC+59sRWpnlKO8I1CFq8KFxJBCLEwTYeMU7SiBp8INV/Hu6SmLEyfeBToDp4KmCAgUXl5SHEaRPeEmlyxqgQZn1UdiUdikEbi48xektkWWPH5XqKnEEhyZSeUjl5Gh8yzLt2UNzoLiVoXOwMRfyINE4HGlbi0kDSEpUDz7w2qv8AE+tl93tAkhXfSUyB3pSZF+kmN6nFbIehzwrkqQpLqkgo3aB33grI6m0dBRvFPD7uKWlTakpSEaSFDckkiiOH86ZehttYWptACiEFKeQEAk9OtQ4rixpl11DxIhYCYSTI0pJkjxVS3Y1wLsuxrmCJw7qiptTZUyufRKR3keQJtWecWAKU25qBLidRA3EQm56kgmtI4wSXsMh5uClCtcEGYMixm1jcRWYZ+yRoJFjqj/tIB981dhq7Iz4NPYzoakI0K75sqwF77XPKkfGWGU25CFklekp1GSColFieVe4bHMJUlXbg6TIEe70qh4hzVt91tYWkBGmJIPoq1bTUMcWnsc2mT4fP14fWy22ghtSkyrUpR0nSDdXhMVaMyxH2uDEDvYi8DkGl/Mj2VR3MThitaiVkrWVGXQACokmAOV6Nx3EKVqbVKQWiSmFDciKk4uyNhvGyPtrJBCQmPWDNKXFDSFQL39ex+VHDN0PaitaATA9IcvXSp5tKSU9ogoVvC028d6g07JqhPnmLJIGwgx7oqx4FyEG96p2YtHXGpJEgSDbfzqwt4lN++j/UKnKP5VCT2NHmZSPGSaX/AFcwfKPcYrr9IJt307fiH511+kEkQFJ9o/rrVMk1Hgtx05oMa2rnEDuL/dPwNeIeRHpJtH3hXLzySlQ1JuDzH51limmtHuHKPhVrgmaEJgdeke/nzqRrvPAchc+q3xoD68gojWJv94AcvHzpng8a0Bq1tA7ekOvnWrxf9DxDq2FuEAKk1WcU+lbknmLe7ammaY9sJIC0HyUPzqp43EjWII23nyqaiyLaLW3CB3UlR9g9tC49K1WMSRYchUOW5kY/WJ8ioX9prt3FpLsa0aesgj4iopNMT4HuVOoSrUpYBLaEkRJ7og3oXi5f1lYKSI7PSSfEkm3rqAdn/es+xP8AzphlamCqFrYKYMmQk+Ed6DUk6fBCvQPwwG8ItatevWIgJ03mZnUZqDFpQ6844uAlSgQICrQARfY2F6sowuBj02f/ACJ/5V6vD4HfWz/5R/ypPfoKoXvZoj6qphA+6UgmwiZ+FZ9xPISyk7jX5XVPzq+ZsvDtthTZYUQoSNYNvIHeYqhcV4xLimykIEAghBty8auw8inwf//Z http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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

You and I are in complete agreement, I think, that the Confederacy itself was a bad thing. We also seem to share a strong distaste for the Confederates flag as a symbol today. Where we disagree in my view is your willingness to judge people by the symbol itself and not by what they say the symbol means to them.

 

[Cajun]

I think it is a southern pride thing. There is also a strong overlap with racism imo. Growing up in rural Louisiana, the guys I knew that flew it def didn't like black people. For myself, it is associated too much with racism these days so I would never have one.

 

[Randy Trevor]

Its a participation trophy for the largest group of loser in the country.

yep, since when does the losing side get to fly their colors?

 

[n...not crazy]

PLAYBOY: Wasn't the Civil War fought to decide whether this nation could, in the words of Lincoln, "endure permanently half slave and half free"?


MALCOLM X: Sir, many, many people are completely misinformed about Lincoln and the Negro. That war involved two thieves, the North and the South, fighting over the spoils. The further we get away from the actual incident, the more they are trying to make it sound as though the battle was over the black man. Lincoln said that if he could save the Union without freeing the slaves, he would. But after two years of killing and carnage he found out he would have to free the slaves. He wasn't interested in the slaves but in the Union.

http://www.malcolm-x.org/docs/int_playb.htm

"That war involved two thieves, the North and the South, fighting over the spoils."

Yep. It's about power. It's always about power, and always has been.

As far as what the flag is about, idk. I don't even have bumper stickers much less flags flying