Why do people fly the confederate flag other than to show people they are racist?

[HereticBD]

If you weren't flying it for legit reasons(your family had history with the Confederation army) it was just seen as a Rebel flag in the past. It was never a big deal. You wore a patch, or flew the flag, 'cause it represented rebellion and you were a fuckin' badass.

Somewhere down the line it became more associated with racism. I certainly don't know why anyone would want to be seen with it today, unless it was a part of your family's heritage.

 

[panamaican]

Because some people think that they can assign some random meaning to the flag that allows them to pretend it has no actual history.

 

[WiolentOne]

I fly it for the rustling.

 

[The Diplomat]

If you weren't flying it for legit reasons(your family had history with the Confederation army) it was just seen as a Rebel flag in the past. It was never a big deal. You wore a patch, or flew the flag, 'cause it represented rebellion and you were a fuckin' badass.

Somewhere down the line it became more associated with racism. I certainly don't know why anyone would want to be seen with it today, unless it was a part of your family's heritage.

It was usually used in parades and re-enactments until the 1950's, when Georgia officially changed their state flag. Guess the reason why

 

[PCP319]

I've never flown it before, and I never will, but flying the flag is not racist at all.

 

[nixkid]

Agreed. According to the 1860 census, 49% of households in Mississippi owned slaves. But in most slaveowning states that number was 25% or below. I'm not one of these revisionists who thinks that the Civil War was not primarily about slavery. It clearly was. My point is that a significant majority of the actual enlisted troops who fought under the Confederate flag were not slave owners, especially since the poor were overrepresented.

I also agree that whatever the personal motivations of the individual Confederate soldier, he was in fact fighting to prop up a regime wedded to human slavery as one of it's foundational pillars. That said, the personal motivations of the individual Southern soldier are important in their own right and it's foolish to dismiss the places where those motivations diverge from the political aims of the Confederacy.

I made my distaste for the Confederate flag and the Confederate flag plain. But it takes a narrow mind not to see that with the complexity of this issue that others may fairly see it differently without being racists. Some of the people waving this flag are racists; some, it seems clear to me, are not.

And I'm saying that its fallacious to believe that non-slave owning soldiers weren't personally fighting to uphold slavery. All it takes is for someone to be convinced that slavery is in his best interests whether that be because it creates a racial caste system that prevents him from being at the bottom rungs of society or whether you convince him that if he works hard enough that he could one day be a slave owner himself or that the economic growth that slavery created was indirectly good for him or maybe you convince him to believe in the freedom of the individual to own slaves as a philosophical matter. If we had a civil war today over private property ownership, I'm sure there will be many, many renters who would fight on the side of property owners because they aspire to be home owners themselves one day or philosophically they simply don't believe that the government should outlaw private property.

If you don't convince the poor that the war is in their interest, why would they fight for you? Interestingly enough. There were towns in the South that did not have much involvement with slavery and they actually fought against the Confederacy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Scott
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Winston
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickajack

 

[rocketskates]

For some it is pride in parts of their history.

I don't have a battle flag but that's what the people I know say and I understand.

But as with most things that racists touch they fucked this up also.

I also understand that people would feel differently about it.

Absolutely. Until supremacist groups starting using it, it was just a battle flag. It's not like the Union was exactly a pillar of equal rights during that time period either.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

And I'm saying that its fallacious to believe that non-slave owning soldiers weren't personally fighting to uphold slavery.

Yeah, you're wrong about that. Plenty of historians have documented southern motivations for fighting. Preservation of slavery was among them, but was far from the only one, especially among the rank and file. Every single Southern soldier was responsible to some extent for upholding slavery. I'm not absolving them of that responsibility or trying to remove that issue from the causes and goals of the war for either side. But when isolating individual human beings, it is a well known phenomenon that personal motivation in war diverge, greatly at times, from the macro political motivations held by the leadership.

It's an obvious and non-controversial point. I'm surprised a person as well informed as yourself is arguing against it.

If you don't convince the poor that the war is in their interest, why would they fight for you? Interestingly enough. There were towns in the South that did not have much involvement with slavery and they actually fought against the Confederacy:

Getting the poor to fight for the South was in fact a tremendous challenge for the Southern states, and shortage of troops due to mass desertion eventually doomed their cause.

Again, I have no sympathy for the Southern cause. I'm a big admirer of Lincoln, Grant, and Sherman. But you are being unnecessarily narrow in your historical analysis, seemingly due to how it relates to this modern day issue, which is a temptation the historian must resist.

 

[drstrangelov]

It's a matter of regional pride to have been soundly defeated by a bunch of lowlifes, criminals and Irish immigrants fighting on behalf of the moneyed north.

 

[Revolver]

They fly the flag so you can easily distinguish who's an idiot and what people to avoid.

 

[oldshadow]

True racists did create those flags too but all racists aren't created equal. The racists that created the Confederate Flag did so with the intent of building their government around the right to enslave people. At least the racists that created the American flag struggled with the idea.

It's not as simple as you make out.

"slavery as an institution, is a moral and political evil in any country."

Robert E. Lee

Not that Lee never owned slaves, because he did and thought that they were better here then in Africa until they could be "civilized "

Lincoln wanted to free the slaves but not at expensive of the Union.

The war for the south was about states rights and at that time slavery was a really big part of states rights.

For the north the war was about preserving the union and the raw materials from the south.

So even the battle flag of Virginia can have more than one meaning depending on who is looking at it.

For some it represents the courgette of their ancestors.

Pickett's charge.

And for others it only represent a very sad time in the history of the country.

As far as flags this saw more slaves then the US.

 

[Roaming East]

It's not as simple as you make out.

"slavery as an institution, is a moral and political evil in any country."

Robert E. Lee

Not that Lee never owned slaves, because he did and thought that they were better here then in Africa until they could be "civilized "

Lincoln wanted to free the slaves but not at expensive of the Union.

The war for the south was about states rights and at that time slavery was a really big part of states rights.

For the north the war was about preserving the union and the raw materials from the south.

So even the battle flag of Virginia can have more than one meaning depending on who is looking at it.

For some it represents the courgette of their ancestors.

Pickett's charge.

And for others it only represent a very sad time in the history of the country.

As far as flags this saw more slaves then the US.

Yeah, but the difference with Brazil is that simply being black didnt automatically make you a third class citizen. In the US, you were either white, or you were savage trash fit for nothing more than exploitation. In Brazil, you had a whole spectrum of social caste that had more to do with your economic status than your melanin content. My family roots sit in Louisiana, and my family tree is Creole. Many in my family speak French Creole enough where the accent is distinct. Hell, my family actually owned slaves.....and also married them haha so the odd dichotomy that made up racial caste is pretty well examined in my family. at least a quarter of my family has either green or blue eyes despite virtually every single one of us identifying as black.

 

[Roaming East]

just for a pictorial background of what im talking about:

Spoiler: big pics

me

my daughter

my parents

here, have some home made Étouffée

 

[Buck Swope]

It really depends on the situation...............

 

[Sir Galahad]

I've already had a couple...

Spoiler

Chubby girls give the best blowjobs.

 

[Furious77]

The flag represents Southern Pride not racism. The lies were perpetuated by the liberals even today.

Pride in owning other human beings. Nobody is buying that bullshit.

 

[oldshadow]

Yeah, but the difference with Brazil is that simply being black didnt automatically make you a third class citizen. In the US, you were either white, or you were savage trash fit for nothing more than exploitation. In Brazil, you had a whole spectrum of social caste that had more to do with your economic status than your melanin content. My family roots sit in Louisiana, and my family tree is Creole. Many in my family speak French Creole enough where the accent is distinct. Hell, my family actually owned slaves.....and also married them haha so the odd dichotomy that made up racial caste is pretty well examined in my family. at least a quarter of my family has either green or blue eyes despite virtually every single one of us identifying as black.

My post was about slavery the fact that south America had a lot more slaves then the US had and most of them in Brazil, or what was then Brazil.

 

[sickc0d3r]

They lost.
And didn't get over it.

 

[ultramanhyata]

The flag represents Southern Pride not racism. The lies were perpetuated by the liberals even today.

There's truth in this.

 

[Gervinho]

Pride in owning other human beings. Nobody is buying that bullshit.

Loool and thete it is. The line they never tell you..pride in owning people. History or not....if there is a flag that makes other think i am a racist. I wouldnt wear it because i dont want people to think that. But these are proud of the flag and its racist history