Why do people act like there is a major difference between HWs and LHWs?

BigMuffler said:
I was specifically asking how there is some kind of magical size difference between 235 LHWs like Rumble and Glover and 235-240 lb HWs like Werdum and Cain.
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One big difference? When you move up in weight, you're not used to grappling men that have spent their entire career grappling HWs in an actual fight.

Fighters like Rumble and Gustafsson are pretty large, but because of their skill set it's advantageous for them to fight in a division where it's less likely they'll be taken down.
Rumble and Gus would be thrown around like a child by a guy like Cain Velasquez.
 
WayOfTheFist said:
Not disagreeing with you but Stipe vs Maldonado proved to be a huge mismatch. Fabio, known for his granite chin, couldn't take an elite hws power.
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It was a quick fight, so hard to say it proved anything.
Maybe Aldo vs Conor was a mismatch too.
 
Taric said:
One big difference? When you move up in weight, you're not used to grappling men that have spent their entire career grappling HWs in an actual fight.

Fighters like Rumble and Gustafsson are pretty large, but because of their skill set it's advantageous for them to fight in a division where it's less likely they'll be taken down.
Rumble and Gus would be thrown around like a child by a guy like Cain Velasquez.
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Good point, but that's more of a skillset thing than the magical physical difference people imply sometimes between a 235 lb guy and... another 235 lb guy.
 
BigMuffler said:
Even DC? Surprising.
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No. Fedor is 6' with a 74.5" reach and DC is 5'11" with a 72.5" reach. It's funny how they Fedor nuthuggers use the size excuse for Fedor's Bigfoot loss when Cormier a smaller fighter wrecked Bigfoot in under a round.
 
BigMuffler said:
Good point, but that's more of a skillset thing than the magical physical difference people imply sometimes between a 235 lb guy and... another 235 lb guy.
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Outside of Cormier (who already had a successful HW career), Jones is literally the only fighter in the LHW division that has the grappling to maybe have a successful HW career.
And even with Jones I'd predict a number of losses against specific fighters.
 
why do people act like there's a difference between 2 weight classes? what kind of stupid question is this?

how about learn to phrase the title adequately, and people might give enough fucks to read the op.

silly...
 
Lionel Mandrake said:
No. Fedor is 6' with a 74.5" reach and DC is 5'11" with a 72.5" reach.
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I have a hard time believing Fedor is 6'
 
BigMuffler said:
There are often extreme stances taken on both sides of the common HW vs LHW debate, some people say the HWs would destroy the LHWs due to size and power while others say the faster, more skilled LHWs would destroy the HWs. Both these statements are exaggerated though because of a fact that I don't understand why people ignore - LHWs are just small HWs who cut weight!

Before some smartass makes a sarcastic remark like "hurr durr, LWs are just small WWs who cut weight", the difference is that traditionally small HWs have usually been the most successful HWs, so being a small HW would not be a disadvantage in the same way being a small WW for example would. There is no significant size gap between say Cain who is 6'1 240 and guys like Rumble and Glover who are not shorter and walk around in the 235 range while carrying less fat, similarly guys like Werdum and JDS are taller but weigh around 235 for HW fights, so why would one believe there is a massive physical difference between the two groups of guys?

I'm not arguing either that the LHWs would usually beat the HWs or vice versa, but that the only real difference between a "HW" and a typical modern "LHW" is whether or not they choose to cut weight, so whether a LHW would do well at HW should be judged based on the specific fighter and not because there is some magical difference between "LHWs" and "HWs" simply because the former cut weight. Many modern LHWs are actually bigger than some historical HWs such as prime Fedor and Crocop, and striking sport HWs like Spong.

If anyone disagrees, what am I missing that physically separates big LHWs like Rumble, Glover and OSP from HWs like Cain, Fedor and CC?
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This is a stupid post. You literally know nothing about putting on size and the effects of cutting weight. 10 pounds is all the difference in the world. You step into the Octagon with someone 10 pounds heavier than you in the heavyweight division and you risk getting knocked out cold. Light heavyweights are 185-205. Heavyweights are 205-265. The disparity in weight on fight night could potentially be 20-30 pounds if a light heavyweight wanted to move up. Rumble would not be the same fighter at heavyweight. You will lose speed with size. You can't take the same risks. You can make an argument for a 215-220 pound weight division and then a 230+ division. Thats how much of a disparity there really is when it comes to heavyweights and divisions below them.
 
Cooliox said:
why do people act like there's a difference between 2 weight classes? what kind of stupid question is this?

how about learn to phrase the title adequately, and people might give enough fucks to read the op.

silly...
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If you don't plan to read the OP you shouldn't click on the thread.
 
Using past examples of HWs or former HWs fighting LHWs or middleweights, or even small HWs vs huge HWs, it's easy to see that there is a huge gap in skill.

It just takes skill and smarts to overcome size.

Jones vs Cormier
Fedor vs Maldonado and Hendo
Fedor vs. Hoi
Cain vs Brock

Etc.


What's funny is that LHW is historically considered a stacked division and has the most legends in the sport.
 
Taric said:
Did you not watch PRIDE FC? We saw all kinds of smaller dudes get savagely murdered by larger men.
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Remember Shoji Shilt? Shoji had balls of steel. That dude would fight anyone.

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Because even Jones only wants to handpick a possible HW opponent.
 
fatlipjesus said:
Of course their off-season weight is probably higher than their fight weight. It is for everybody. I have no idea what your point is.




And you didnt say anything about their off-season weight.....

You pointedly said that a guy like Overeem can weigh in at 240 lbs... and then go up to 255 lbs the next night for the fight.... which implies you think they are cutting weight for absolutely no reason at all.

And no, they don't GAIN weight throughout their camp. They lose it.
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Do you read what I post or just skim thru it. I never said they add weight during camp. When someone is getting ready for a fight they try to build their cardio and get as lean as possible thus meaning they are losing weight. JDS probably starts camp at 255-260lbs. When camp is done and he's lost the excess water and fat, he's probably a lean 235lbs. What are you not understanding? I think you're being combative on purpose.
 
TS entire thread ignores the fact he's picked the largest lhws and smallest hws.

It's basically like saying Pitbulls and boxers are the same size so all dogs are the same size.

TS really can't be this dumb
 
Lionel Mandrake said:
No. Fedor is 6' with a 74.5" reach and DC is 5'11" with a 72.5" reach. It's funny how they Fedor nuthuggers use the size excuse for Fedor's Bigfoot loss when Cormier a smaller fighter wrecked Bigfoot in under a round.
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At that point, Bigfoot's size was only an issue because Fedor had basically stopped training worth a shit and had declined physically and skill-wise.... mostly of which was his own doing.

Styles do make fights though and Bigfoot is a worse style for Fedor than he is probably to Cormier due to the wrestling.
 
fatlipjesus said:
At that point, Bigfoot's size was only an issue because Fedor had basically stopped training worth a shit and had declined physically and skill-wise.... mostly of which was his own doing.

Styles do make fights though and Bigfoot is a worse style for Fedor than he is probably to Cormier due to the wrestling.
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I don't think Fedor's skills ever really diminished. I just think he wasn't putting the same effort into his training. If he hired a Dietitian, a S & C, coach and trained at a top notch MMA gym he would still be competitive today.
 
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