Why didn’t we ever see a calf kick in K-1?

[Kanka]

The funniest for me was from before the Mayweather McGregor fight where MMA guys claimed that Floyd has never seen MMA footwork and angles, and would be completely surprised and unable to deal with it. Hilarious because Floyd fought & beat Emanuel Augustus, whose style was so far out there that he was known as The Drunken Master.

The same people probably thought Conor put up a good fight against McGregor, although Mayweather carried him and made him look good intentionally.

 

[Tayski]

The same people probably thought Conor put up a good fight against McGregor, although Mayweather carried him and made him look good intentionally.

To be honest he did much better than I expected.

 

[Kanka]

To be honest he did much better than I expected.

Mayweather let him

 

[Tayski]

Mayweather let him

I don't think Mayweather was purposely letting Mcgregor hit him in the face though. Sure his plan was to get him to tire himself out as he knew he usually gasses out after a while, but that doesn't make Mcgregor's performance any less impressive considering his boxing experience (or lack of shall I say) vs Mayweather's level of experience.

 

[98bird]

Kicks to the arm are very intentional and score just as much as other strikes. Read up on muay thai scoring.

Notice how you dodged all the other points. And it depends on whether or not you caused noticeable damage.

 

[98bird]

The point is there's a high risk of getting your leg damaged from a block when kicking the calf as it's easier to block than a kick to the thigh.

You can't compare that with punches as there's no blocks to punches that will cause great damage like a shin block does, especially when wearing gloves.

It would be an exchange in damage, just as you'd get a similar exchange in damage should your kick to the thigh gets checked.

Are you purposely pretending not to understand just to argue with people for the sake of it?

Why, because I dare to disagree with you? Kicking calf is just one of many techniques. I'm not saying to replace kicking the thigh with kicking the calf. While you're trying to imply that it should never be done at all, which is silly.

 

[Tayski]

It would be an exchange in damage, just as you'd get a similar exchange in damage should your kick to the thigh gets checked.

Why, because I dare to disagree with you? Kicking calf is just one of many techniques. I'm not saying to replace kicking the thigh with kicking the calf. While you're trying to imply that it should never be done at all, which is silly.

Except kicking the calf does little damage while it's a higher risk of getting checked and hurting yourself. That's exactly why you don't see people use it in Kickboxing and Muay Thai.

You're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with all the top fighters from both sports who don't use it for that simple reason.

 

[Snubnoze707]

While you're trying to imply that it should never be done at all, which is silly.

Literally nobody is saying it should never be done, we are just explaining WHY it's NOT done in high level MT/KB.

 

[98bird]

Literally nobody is saying it should never be done, we are just explaining WHY it's NOT done in high level MT/KB.

I'm saying it should be done more.

 

[98bird]

Except kicking the calf does little damage while it's a higher risk of getting checked and hurting yourself. That's exactly why you don't see people use it in Kickboxing and Muay Thai.

You're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with all the top fighters from both sports who don't use it for that simple reason.

It's still exchanging damage. The checker is also getting hurt.

 

[Snubnoze707]

I'm saying it should be done more.

I don't think the pro's care what you think they should do more, they are going to do what is advantageous. They aren't throwing these kicks and we've explained why, you just don't want to listen.

 

[98bird]

I don't think the pro's care what you think they should do more, they are going to do what is advantageous. They aren't throwing these kicks and we've explained why, you just don't want to listen.

They weren't doing shoulder rolls and such 20 years ago neither, but now seems to be doing it more, so I'm trying to explain to you this.

 

[Snubnoze707]

They weren't doing shoulder rolls and such 20 years ago neither, but now seems to be doing it more, so I'm trying to explain to you this.

You may be trying, but you're not doing a very good job at it.

There really isn't much more to say. Re-read the thread.

 

[null]

The people in this thread trying to explain the calf kick away aren't really taking into account the reality that sometimes things aren't done for reasons that have nothing to do with effectiveness, but for other reasons, even irrational reasons. This applies not just to fighting but to every area in life- business strategies, techniques of videography, music trends, clothing styles etc. Sometimes things aren't done a certain way just because other people aren't doing it yet and then some influencer tries it and subsequently a trend develops somehow and it becomes a rage for a while through out all society and then goes away. And sometimes some version sticks around a long time or becomes a niche pursuit. Fighting styles aren't immune to this. MMA being a combination of several disciplines is much more open to change and rapid evolution over the last couple of decades as fighters from different backgrounds copy each other's styles or moves when they see something work, while kickboxing and muay thai seem a lot more traditional and resistant to change. Combine that with the popular narrative on this forum that MMA fighters often have mediocre striking, especially kicking, and I'm not at all surprised that people here would dismiss it out of hand rather than accept the possibility that innovation in stand up fighting could come from or through another combat sport other than kickboxing or muay thai itself.

The calf kick just happens to be the so called new strike that has been getting a lot of attention in MMA, but I've often thought that there are quite a few other techniques that are woefully underused in fighting and especially in all stand up striking sports like kickboxing. I understand that any time you go beyond the meat & potatoes basics that there are specialized skills necessary and risks associated with throwing unconventional strikes, but most kickboxers seem loathe to try anything or innovate much in any way beyond the traditional Dutch style or thai style and that's about it.

Take a technique like this front kick to the face that some people called a crane kick that Lyoto Machida famously used to highlight reel effectiveness against Vitor Belfort several years ago. The reason this isn't tried more often is that few kickboxers have a karate background like Machida and have never trained it, combined with that fact that it's considered disrespectful to put your foot on your training partner's face in practice, not because it doesn't. work when landed.

Likewise, why is there hardly ever any spinning back kicks tried and landed in kickboxing like former UFC fighter Dennis Siver did with great effectiveness? Siver didn't just start doing this when he became an MMA fighter or later when he got signed to the UFC, he obviously trained it a lot early in his development as a stand up striker in Europe and brought it with him.

Here's an old video of James Krause who actually broke Jamie Varner's ankle with a lower leg strike to show that it isn't even that new of a technique in MMA as this fight was several years ago.

The specific technique that has gotten a lot of attention lately however is what Brent Primus did to Michael Chandler in their Bellator title fight not long ago and is more focused on kicking higher than the ankle to hit the peroneal nerve and cause a temporary drop foot condition that cripples an opponent's ability to move.

This fighter Ben Egli shows some footage and explains how it happened to him in a fight in this video below just like what happened to Michael Chandler in the Brent Primus fight and how he lost control of his foot as a result.




So in conclusion I'm personally going to keep an open mind as I wouldn't be surprised to see the technique used more often even outside of MMA at some point despite the people who categorically deny that it could ever be effective in kicboxing when there are a whole host of other striking techniques that most fighters just don't bother with either.

 

[Tayski]

It's still exchanging damage. The checker is also getting hurt.

Try to kick my calf while I block your kick with my shin and then tell me if that was a fair exchange of damage.

 

[Tayski]

Take a technique like this front kick to the face that some people called a crane kick that Lyoto Machida famously used to highlight reel effectiveness against Vitor Belfort several years ago. The reason this isn't tried more often is that few kickboxers have a karate background like Machida and have never trained it, combined with that fact that it's considered disrespectful to put your foot on your training partner's face in practice, not because it doesn't. work when landed.

Wrong.

Crane kicks are just as common if not more common in Kickboxing than in MMA.

Same with front kicks and teeps to the face.

Time stamped on this too:

Likewise, why is there hardly ever any spinning back kicks tried and landed in kickboxing

Even more wrong.

It's used plenty in Kickboxing. Even recently one KO comes to mind from that kick:


And used plenty of times. All those gifs are from Glory and I can find even more.

Here's an old video of James Krause who actually broke Jamie Varner's ankle with a lower leg strike to show that it isn't even that new of a technique in MMA as this fight was several years ago.

That was a freak accident. It's not the kick that broke his ankle it's when he landed on it wrong with his entire body weight.

So in conclusion I'm personally going to keep an open mind as I wouldn't be surprised to see the technique used more often even outside of MMA at some point despite the people who categorically deny that it could ever be effective in kicboxing when there are a whole host of other striking techniques that most fighters just don't bother with either.

I actually thought you were a Kickboxing fans who has seen lots of fights and know what it used and not used, but apparently not. Don't make conclusions from wrong assumptions. Effective striking techniques are used in Kickboxing and Muay Thai, just not the ones that that are risky for little reward. Feel free to have a Kickboxing or Muay Thai fight and show us how calf kicks made you win the fight though.

 

[Snubnoze707]

@Tayski thank you I didn't have the energy to respond to that.

People always gotta act like they discovered some new Neo Wave technique that's going to revolutionize the game, as if all this shit hasn't already been vetted.

I also question if JimGunn and 98 have had any formal training.

 

[98bird]

Try to kick my calf while I block your kick with my shin and then tell me if that was a fair exchange of damage.

So you're saying that a kick with my shin into your block with your shin, is not an even exchange of damage should we be of the same size? Why?

 

[98bird]

You may be trying, but you're not doing a very good job at it.

There really isn't much more to say. Re-read the thread.

You should re-read the thread since you can't make further arguments.

 

[Snubnoze707]

So you're saying that a kick with my shin into your block with your shin, is not an even exchange of damage should we be of the same size? Why?

Checks hurt the kicker. Have you trained a day in your life?