Why didn’t we ever see a calf kick in K-1?

[98bird]

You can kick full force with shin guards on and it won't hurt even a fraction of what a kick without shin guards. Maybe if you're untrained of if you're much smaller than your sparring partner if will hurt.

Calf kicks would hurt even less since it's double shin guard but if it's effective you'd still use it. Slapping knees in sparring don't hurt either and you use it all the time. It's sparring anyway, not actual fighting.

Calf kicks are used in Thailand and anywhere else in MT fights b/c that's what sweeps usually target and land on?

Your comparison of using the inner thighs during sparring for knees is flawed, because hard knees can do massive damage that's why it's not thrown hard and/or just slaps with the thigh. But hard kicks to the thigh during sparring is accepted as good training. And sparring is a form of competition....so if both have on shin guards and I get cracked in the thigh hard, I'm not going to get even by kicking his calf where he's basically guaranteed a block w/o doing anything due to his shin guard.

What do you mean it doesn't hurt. Will you let me kick you in the thigh 10x with my shin guards on? No flexing, just keep the lead leg light in the MT stance.

 

[Kanka]

Calf kicks are used in Thailand and anywhere else in MT fights b/c that's what sweeps usually target and land on?

Your comparison of using the inner thighs during sparring for knees is flawed, because hard knees can do massive damage that's why it's not thrown hard and/or just slaps with the thigh. But hard kicks to the thigh during sparring is accepted as good training. And sparring is a form of competition....so if both have on shin guards and I get cracked in the thigh hard, I'm not going to get even by kicking his calf where he's basically guaranteed a block w/o doing anything due to his shin guard.

What do you mean it doesn't hurt. Will you let me kick you in the thigh 10x with my shin guards on? No flexing, just keep the lead leg light in the MT stance.

As i said in a previous post yes, it's used to off balance the opponent, but i haven't seen it used to hurt the opponent and i explained my thoughts on why.

The only time i've seen people trying to inflict damage in Muay Thai sparring were total noobs or some meat heads that didn't belong in a muay thai gym. Never seen pro muay thai fighters spar that way and i've seen plenty. I'm guessing you're from a different gym culture which is ok.

My point still remains: thai way of sparring doesn't hurt. Since no strike really hurts in thai way of sparring it is not logical to neglect a calf kick.

 

[98bird]

As i said in a previous post yes, it's used to off balance the opponent, but i haven't seen it used to hurt the opponent and i explained my thoughts on why.

The only time i've seen people trying to inflict damage in Muay Thai sparring were total noobs or some meat heads that didn't belong in a muay thai gym. Never seen pro muay thai fighters spar that way and i've seen plenty. I'm guessing you're from a different gym culture which is ok.

So if I showed you a video of a Thai Coach in Thailand targeting the calf during med-hard sparring, then you'll admit you're wrong and making gross exaggerations?

My point still remains: thai way of sparring doesn't hurt. Since no strike really hurts in thai way of sparring it is not logical to neglect a calf kick.

And if I showed you a video of a Thai fighter in Thailand, sparring hard that def. hurts, then you'll admit that you're wrong about this also?

 

[Kanka]

So if I showed you a video of a Thai Coach in Thailand targeting the calf during med-hard sparring, then you'll admit you're wrong and making gross exaggerations?



And if I showed you a video of a Thai fighter in Thailand, sparring hard that def. hurts, then you'll admit that you're wrong about this also?

None of that will in any way prove me wrong. If i find a video of a thai doing cartwheel kicks during sparring, does in mean it's an effective technique in high level muay thai? Sure there is the ocasional KO but it's mostly a show boating technique. I don't know any fighter who won fights by having a good cartwheel kick.

Of course you'll find some footage of hard sparring and strange techniques, but it's not the norm and it's not Lumpinee and Rajadamnern top fighters are using to consistently win fights.

Now if you know of any fighters that consistently use calf kicks effectively and for the most part do hard sparring that hurts, please inform me.

Actually, you can start by naming 5 current muay thai fighters that have good mid kicks?

 

[98bird]

None of that will in any way prove me wrong. If i find a video of a thai doing cartwheel kicks during sparring, does in mean it's an effective technique in high level muay thai? Sure there is the ocasional KO but it's mostly a show boating technique. I don't know any fighter who won fights by having a good cartwheel kick.

You just make gross exaggerations and when called out on it, you make up silly strawman arguments.

Of course you'll find some footage of hard sparring and strange techniques, but it's not the norm and it's not Lumpinee and Rajadamnern top fighters are using to consistently win fights.

So why does it cause damage to the calves of UFC fighters?

Now if you know of any fighters that consistently use calf kicks effectively and for the most part do hard sparring that hurts, please inform me.

Actually, you can start by naming 5 current muay thai fighters that have good mid kicks?

Now you're just trying to change the subject and avoiding what I argued.

 

[Tayski]

So why does it cause damage to the calves of UFC fighters?

Because they don't block them?

 

[Torrid]

Because they don't block them?

And they're very heavy on the front leg, but yeah, this is the biggest thing.

A lot of fighters only have some offensive kicking game and practically zero defense - they just figure they'll either go for TDs on kicks or try to counter with punches.

Even at the highest levels of MMA, we see the most common defense is mostly just meeting offense with more offense. Most of the more lauded defensive fighters usually just use distance and spacing as their main defense.

 

[98bird]

Because they don't block them?

You can say the same about kicks to the thigh, "because they (UFC fighters) don't block them".

The sciatic nerve that gets shocked and damaged by kicks to the thigh, extends all the way down to the calf.

 

[Kanka]

You just make gross exaggerations and when called out on it, you make up silly strawman arguments.



So why does it cause damage to the calves of UFC fighters?



Now you're just trying to change the subject and avoiding what I argued.

You're not providing any arguments.

Let me just put this out there: kicks to the arms in sparring with shin guards on don't hurt but yet it's still heavily used in muay thai. Wether it hurt or not in sparring doesn't make a difference.

As me and others have pointed out, the stance and the distance really affects what strikes will be used. If your opponent has a tall stance, ready to check your kick it doesn't make sense to leap in for the calf kick. A kick to the thigh is closer, doesn't require you leaping forward as much and not as easy to block. An opponent with a wide stance and feet planted will take more direct impact than an opponent with a tall stance. The same applies to kicks to the thighs.

 

[Monte Moku]

You can say the same about kicks to the thigh, "because they (UFC fighters) don't block them".

The sciatic nerve that gets shocked and damaged by kicks to the thigh, extends all the way down to the calf.

The sciatic nerve extends from the spine through the back of the leg and then around the calf. I can sorta see the point about attempting to damage the sciatic nerve while targeting the calf, but you're just hitting thigh meat for normal low kicks -- unless you're somehow hitting them in the back of the leg.

Here is a cool video about it:


And here is the article featuring the video where they include a few diagrams:
http://damagecontrolmma.com/2009/09/the-anatomy-of-the-muay-thai-kickboxing-mma-leg-kick-and-beyond/

You can theoretically target the the nerve, but it only causes the immediate (yet temporary) loss of muscle function if you manage to land a solid kick there. The damage from low kicks is actually straightforward. You keep beating the hell out of their thigh, it's going to get swollen and damaged and muscle function will deteriorate.

 

[Tayski]

You can say the same about kicks to the thigh, "because they (UFC fighters) don't block them".

The sciatic nerve that gets shocked and damaged by kicks to the thigh, extends all the way down to the calf.

Did you not read previous posts that rightfully pointed out how much easier it is to block a calf kick with the shin in comparison to a thigh kick where you actually need to lift the leg up in time?

 

[98bird]

You're not providing any arguments.

Wrong, you're just avoiding them.

Let me just put this out there: kicks to the arms in sparring with shin guards on don't hurt but yet it's still heavily used in muay thai. Wether it hurt or not in sparring doesn't make a difference.

That's a called a block, duh.

As me and others have pointed out, the stance and the distance really affects what strikes will be used. If your opponent has a tall stance, ready to check your kick it doesn't make sense to leap in for the calf kick.

Obviously, you wait for the range to be right or if there's an opening, etc. But isn't your opponent ready to block punches to the face also based on "the stance"? So by your logic, does this mean "it doesn't make sense to leap in for the (punch)? See how silly what you just tried to argue was?

A kick to the thigh is closer, doesn't require you leaping forward as much and not as easy to block.

Yea, so? A lead teep to the body is closer than a jab to the body....so what now? Don't throw jabs at all? Again, your faulty logic.

An opponent with a wide stance and feet planted will take more direct impact than an opponent with a tall stance. The same applies to kicks to the thighs.

Yea, so?

 

[98bird]

Did you not read previous posts that rightfully pointed out how much easier it is to block a calf kick with the shin in comparison to a thigh kick where you actually need to lift the leg up in time?

It's easier to land jabs vs. lead hooks, so what's your point?

 

[98bird]

The sciatic nerve extends from the spine through the back of the leg and then around the calf. I can sorta see the point about attempting to damage the sciatic nerve while targeting the calf, but you're just hitting thigh meat for normal low kicks -- unless you're somehow hitting them in the back of the leg.

Here is a cool video about it:


And here is the article featuring the video where they include a few diagrams:
http://damagecontrolmma.com/2009/09/the-anatomy-of-the-muay-thai-kickboxing-mma-leg-kick-and-beyond/

You can theoretically target the the nerve, but it only causes the immediate (yet temporary) loss of muscle function if you manage to land a solid kick there. The damage from low kicks is actually straightforward. You keep beating the hell out of their thigh, it's going to get swollen and damaged and muscle function will deteriorate.

I agree with you about damaging the muscles, and other nerves, but it's should also be shocking the sciatic nerve. I didn't watch that video because I don't like those 2 guys. They try way too hard to be funny and it's just way too cringy.

 

[Kanka]

Wrong, you're just avoiding them.



That's a called a block, duh.



Obviously, you wait for the range to be right or if there's an opening, etc. But isn't your opponent ready to block punches to the face also based on "the stance"? So by your logic, does this mean "it doesn't make sense to leap in for the (punch)? See how silly what you just tried to argue was?



Yea, so? A lead teep to the body is closer than a jab to the body....so what now? Don't throw jabs at all? Again, your faulty logic.



Yea, so?

Kicks to the arm are very intentional and score just as much as other strikes. Read up on muay thai scoring.

 

[Tayski]

It's easier to land jabs vs. lead hooks, so what's your point?

The point is there's a high risk of getting your leg damaged from a block when kicking the calf as it's easier to block than a kick to the thigh.

You can't compare that with punches as there's no blocks to punches that will cause great damage like a shin block does, especially when wearing gloves.

Are you purposely pretending not to understand just to argue with people for the sake of it?

 

[Kanka]

Mma fighters also spar with shin guards...

 

[Snubnoze707]

Saw a bunch of useless calf kicks in last night's UFC that had no effect. Also saw a bunch of inside and outside thigh kicks that were fucking guys up. #mythbusted

 

[Tayski]

Saw a bunch of useless calf kicks in last night's UFC that had no effect. Also saw a bunch of inside and outside thigh kicks that were fucking guys up. #mythbusted

Still funny how MMA guys think they'll teach fighters from striking sports how to strike. "Why don't we ever see calf kicks in Kickboxing or Muay Thai? That shit works so great but those striking dinosaurs just never thought about it!" "How about oblique kicks to the knee? They also didn't think about it ha!"

 

[aerius]

Still funny how MMA guys think they'll teach fighters from striking sports how to strike. "Why don't we ever see calf kicks in Kickboxing or Muay Thai? That shit works so great but those striking dinosaurs just never thought about it!" "How about oblique kicks to the knee? They also didn't think about it ha!"

The funniest for me was from before the Mayweather McGregor fight where MMA guys claimed that Floyd has never seen MMA footwork and angles, and would be completely surprised and unable to deal with it. Hilarious because Floyd fought & beat Emanuel Augustus, whose style was so far out there that he was known as The Drunken Master.