Why are some of you so confident in Maia against Askren?

fortheo said:
I think shields is the far more proven MMA grappler. I honestly don't think that's even debatable. Just look at their records. I think if Maia gets Askren's back the way he got shields back twice, askren isn't getting him off.
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Yeah, he's more proven in MMA but most people thought Maia would clearly outgrapple him before the fight happened and the grappling ended up being even. More proven doesn't mean clearly better and Maia isn't as good now as he was then.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
Yeah, he's more proven in MMA but most people thought Maia would clearly outgrapple him before the fight happened and the grappling ended up being even. More proven doesn't mean clearly better.
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So what's your opinion on Askren vs. Maia? You think Askren would out scramble him to a win? all while fending off maia's submission attempts?
 
fortheo said:
So what's your opinion on Askren vs. Maia? You think Askren would out scrambles him to a win? all while fending off maia's submission attempts?
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I think either can win the fight. If Maia wins I think it's with striking, if Askren wins I think it will be due to takedowns and outscrambling Maia in the 50/50 positions. I don't think either is likely to get a submission.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
I think either can win the fight. If Maia wins I think it's with striking, if Askren wins I think it will be due to takedowns and outscrambling Maia in the 50/50 positions.
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I just can't shake all the bad bjj moves by askren. This one comes to mind immediately. the guy doesn't even pass guards properly.

XLkkDv.gif


His wrestling is great, but if he doesn't do well with BJJ in my opinion. AT best, I think he can stall on that ground with Maia.
 
fortheo said:
I just can't shake all the bad bjj moves by askren. This one comes to mind immediately. the guy doesn't even pass guards properly.

XLkkDv.gif


His wrestling is great, but if he doesn't do well with BJJ in my opinion. AT best, I think he can stall on that ground with Maia.
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I'm not sure who he's grappling here so i'm not sure if he was worried at all about being reversed but he's not in any danger of being submitted. I just remember Maia losing almost all of the scrambles against Shields and Askren is better than Shields in that area in general IMO.

Edit: based on the Civil War advertisement it's probably Nikolay Aleksakhin and he missed weight cutting to 185, he's probably much stronger than Maia is and the reversal he uses is kind of explosive based.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
I'm not sure who he's grappling here so i'm not sure if he was worried at all about being reversed but he's not in any danger of being submitted. I just remember Maia losing almost all of the scrambles against Shields and Askren is better than Shields in that area in general IMO.
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Which again comes back to Shields being far better in BJJ which allowed him to take those risks properly. Askren makes a lot of BJJ mistakes. Shields does not.
 
fortheo said:
Which again comes back to Shields being far better in BJJ which allowed him to take those risks properly. Askren makes a lot of BJJ mistakes. Shields does not.
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I'm not sure the mistake wasn't made due to the guy he's fighting not really being considered a grappling threat. Alan Belcher out grappled Palhares in MMA so I don't think it's easy to predict who would have the grappling advantage on the ground and before Maia fought Shields the vast majority of people seemed to think Maia would easily outgrapple him.

I expect this to be a competitive fight with Maia being 42 and Askren having better scrambling.
 
How is Ben supposed to win? His striking is a lot worse than Maia's. His only path of victory is stalling Maia out on the ground. Think about it. Ben will have to try and stall out the man who submitted Fabricio Werdum from his guard.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
I'm not sure the mistake wasn't made due to the guy he's fighting not really being considered a grappling threat. Alan Belcher out grappled Palhares in MMA so I don't think it's easy to predict who would have the grappling advantage on the ground and before Maia fought Shields the vast majority of people seemed to think Maia would easily outgrapple him.
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Hopefully we'll find out. Honestly, the only thing stopping me from flat out picking Maia to win is his age. If he was the same age as askren I'd pick him with certainty. His age is what makes this more interesting to me because his cardio has been reduced a lot.

It's also worth noting that Maia is the bigger guy.

I really hope they book the fight.
 
applesbananas said:
How is Ben supposed to win? His striking is a lot worse than Maia's. His only path of victory is stalling Maia out on the ground. Think about it. Ben will have to try and stall out the man who submitted Fabricio Werdum from his guard.
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Like Shield's did. Maia's bottom game is not as high level as his top game.
 
blaseblah said:
Like Shield's did. Maia's bottom game is not as high level as his top game.
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Again. Shields only won 2 rounds grappling. He also lost 2 rounds grappling. What won him the controversial split decision was his striking output in round five, which is something that Ben can't rely on.
 
Askren will get submitted by Maia quickly. Why would he dare to hope right into Maia's guard?

Shields grappling against Askren vvvvvvvv

He gets tapped like a typewriter.

 
blaseblah said:
Like Shield's did. Maia's bottom game is not as high level as his top game.
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Shields is better than most give him credit being, that being said Maia broke Rick Story's jaw with an RNC grip on the chin and pretty much raped Fitch, his bottom game is plenty good enough to snatch a front choke on a slow ass Askren shooting for a single or a slow ass double.
 
fortheo said:
Again. Shields only won 2 rounds grappling. He also lost 2 rounds grappling. What won him the controversial split decision was his striking output in round five, which is something that Ben can't rely on.
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Askren is a much better wrestler than Shields in case you haven't noticed.
 
RomanJester said:
Shields is better than most give him credit being, that being said Maia broke Rick Story's jaw with an RNC grip on the chin and pretty much raped Fitch, his bottom game is plenty good enough to snatch a front choke on a slow ass Askren shooting for a single or a slow ass double.
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People also overlook the fact that askren is basically a chubby lightweight. The guy is begging for a 165lb division for a reason. He'd be much smaller than maia.
 
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