Why all the hate for bodybuilding?

[Urban]

Bodybuilding = training for appearance
Training for appearance = a good way to get smashed when competing in sport.
end of story.

 

[Zeirhk]

HOld on a second, a bodybuilding workout is where it has a whole lot of isolation stuff right? But they also do compound movements, that includes the big three. So what's wrong with a bodybuilding routine?

Isn't it that beginners should follow a bodybuilding type of routine to develop that "base" for heavier lifting?

 

[SmashiusClay]

I have no problem with bodybuilders, in fact I have a sort of grudging respect for anyone who is that dedicated to a single goal and prepared to put in so much work to achieve it. However, bbing has no place in the training regime of a competitive martial artist. Developing vast quantities of muscle will have a detrimental effect on cardio as you're not only having to lug around a huge amount of mass but it also requires more oxygen to run your system. The muscle they have is purely for show and will not do anything to help them fight, in fact having trained with some body builders, those that are really huge are limited in rnge of motion and slowed down by their muscle. This is why therre is a limited tolerance for bodybuilders on this forum.

 

[colinm]

henry rollins said something like, "i see people who lift for vanity as caricatures of their own insecurities"

 

[Chad Hamilton]

I started in bodybuilding 10 years ago and thru the last 10 years I have drastically changed my point of view on bodybuilding and it's health and athletic benifits.

Simply put...bodybuilding trains your muscles to work independently, with exception to the few powerlifting moves that bodybuilders RARELY, no matter what they say, employ into their routines. I know most of this because my boss is a pro and just got back from a shoot in LA for M&F. (He's a pretty boy.)
Over time I have realized that movements like Oly's, GPP, plyo's etc. are a much better way towards health and athletic performance by the recruitment of the CNS and all your muscles working together, which I believe is a superior way to train. And if you have an impeccable diet and genitics like I, being a pretty boy with pretty muscles is just a bi-product of my superior athleticism. And by health I mean the longevity of life.

Simply put....again....I want my muscles to work together, in daily life and in the ring.
I do not see the benifit of doing 3 sets of 10 supersetting bi's and tri's.

"Hey man, what are you working today?"
"Oh, chest and tri's, maybe back and bi's."

I find so much more enjoyment and connection with the earth when throwing a 60lb log over my head and excecuting perfect triple extension than grinding out set after set after set of lateral raises and pressdowns.

 

[eric1968]

I don't compete so I workout for appearance - sad but true

 

[eljamaiquino]

Personally, I have no hate for bodybuilding, it has its own place, but doing bodybuilding type workouts if you are an athlete is a cause for potential hindrancee in performance.

That's not necessarily true. Quite a few strength coaches say that they prescribe bodybuilding style/ hypertrophy training to some of their athletes in certain situations. If a smaller athlete is trying to move upwards to the top of or out of a weight class for example. If the athlete has to gain weight, they would rather it be muscle than fat. Of course, eventually the athlete wil go back to his regular workout, but bodybuilding style training does what its designed for, which is to make muscles larger, and an athlete may need that at times. No need for leg extensions (although Matt Hughes does them), or concentration curls, but the 8-12 rep range on the basic lifts does well at times.

Most of the hate that Ive seen comes from chubby guys who are insecure in themsleves. They have a 48 inch waist, can't shake the gut, and talk about bodybuilders badly because they really want to look like that but can't. This is in real life, not necessarily on this board. I respect all athletes in their own endeavours.

Many MMA guys would love to look like Arlovski or GSP, but can't, so they go to bodybuilders for what they can use, nutrition and tuff, then crap over the rest. Training is sport specific anyway, so other than the big 3 powerlifts or certain Olympic lifts, everything else is an accessory anyways. If you do curls, people scream at you, but you will never do an overhead lift in MMA either, but many people still do them and not a whisper is heard.

There is no reason why you can't have both performance and appearance. Performance should come first, but there is no reason why you should have to look like the GoodYear man either. After a certain point, extra fat on your body is only slowing you down.

The ideal athlete should be as stong as possible within his weight class. Why carry 30 lbs of fat when you can make 10 or 20 lbs of that muscle? There is a trade-off as the muscle requires extra oxygen,but the human body is not going to (naturally) put on more than 10 lbs of muscle in a year anyways, so there is plenty of time to aclimatize youself.

I think Marius Pudzianowski has put the lie to "strong guys must be fat" myth. Put down the hohos and stop bitching.....

 

[bacon]

When it comes down to it, there are those that lift and those that don't.

in the wise words of Sudo, "We are all one"

 

[Bizz]

Ive seen skinny guys who dont even weight train (only MMA train) who could out power most body builders. Aka the freak strength

 

[eljamaiquino]

Ive seen skinny guys who dont even weight train (only MMA train) who could out power most body builders. Aka the freak strength

Of course, strength is highly dependent on your tendon and ligament attachment. What's your point? They could get even stronger with weight training...

 

[Diligent]

If you do curls, people scream at you, but you will never do an overhead lift in MMA either, but many people still do them and not a whisper is heard.

There is no reason why you can't have both performance and appearance. Performance should come first, but there is no reason why you should have to look like the GoodYear man either. After a certain point, extra fat on your body is only slowing you down.

One reason I could see curls being frowned upon is because they are NOT a compound movement. Overhead lifts are. Training movements>>>training individual body parts, in my opinion.

And yes, you can have both performance and appearance, but when people start threads on here that are solely for appearance, that's where I think some guys, including me, get a little annoyed....

 

[bacon]

Ive seen skinny guys who dont even weight train (only MMA train) who could out power most body builders. Aka the freak strength

I believe the term you're looking for is leverage.....please see eljamaiquino's post

 

[eljamaiquino]

One reason I could see curls being frowned upon is because they are NOT a compound movement. Overhead lifts are. Training movements>>>training individual body parts, in my opinion.

And yes, you can have both performance and appearance, but when people start threads on here that are solely for appearance, that's where I think some guys, including me, get a little annoyed....

I can see that. Compound movements are always best as we all (should) know.

I'm also fairly new so maybe you guys got 5 million threads on how to get lower abs more defined or something a while back. I haven't seen too much since I came on. There are other boards for that sort of thing...

 

[Chad Hamilton]

I don't know whether this has any bearing on the thread but when I do Oly's, all I can think about is Rampage/Arona and I get jacked (or maybe it's the ephedra).

Bodybuilding workouts do not spark that in me. I think more about pussy.
True.

 

[Diligent]

I don't know whether this has any bearing on the thread but when I do Oly's, all I can think about is Rampage/Arona and I get jacked (or maybe it's the ephedra).

haha, nice!

 

[KOU In3]

I'm suprised by the number of people that think a bodybuilding routine is all about isolation movements and concentration curls. Yes, there are back days and chest days. But any decent bodybuilder's back day revolves around, deadlifts, bent rows, and chins. Just like any decent bodybuilder's chest day revolves around heavy pressing movements. The flies are minimal afterthoughts.

As to who needs a 400 pound squat for MMA... are you kidding me? Whether or not these guys are maxing their squat all the time, what do you think the Fedors, Nogs, and Arlovski's squat?

I agree that training for appearance won't neccesarily stack up against a quality powerlifting program. BUT, I've seen a number of amateur bodybuilders with a LOT more power than a lot of MMAers.

I think my real beef is not with weight training MMAers who blow me away in punching strength and grappling power but from the legions of posters decrying bodybuilding who can't even post up my meager numbers. Given my inferior genetics and supposedly inferior training techniques I'd expect alot more of those non-bodybuilding lifters to have far superior deadlifts, post up huge numbers of dips, etc.

When I train with a strongman and he laughs at all my gym time not being able to lift the 200 and 300 pound Atlas stones, it makes sense. But when those who can't even use their own bodyweight for working sets on the bench decry a bodybuilding style of lifting I get a bit annoyed. (maybe a double standard I know)




Just to add fuel to the fire and play Devil's Advocate to Urban's...
Bodybuilding = training for appearance
Training for appearance = a good way to get smashed when competing in sport.

1) Evander Holyfield's training program was run by Mr. Olympia Lee Haney. This was during the peak of Holyfield's career. I'd say he did more of the smashing than the getting smashed.

2) Isn't everyone always raving about Phil Baroni's punching power? Another bodybuilder.


Admittedly, I'm just trying to be difficult with the last part my post there. :icon_twis

 

[Ted-P]

I think my real beef is not with weight training MMAers who blow me away in punching strength and grappling power but from the legions of posters decrying bodybuilding who can't even post up my meager numbers. Given my inferior genetics and supposedly inferior training techniques I'd expect alot more of those non-bodybuilding lifters to have far superior deadlifts, post up huge numbers of dips, etc.

When I train with a strongman and he laughs at all my gym time not being able to lift the 200 and 300 pound Atlas stones, it makes sense. But when those who can't even use their own bodyweight for working sets on the bench decry a bodybuilding style of lifting I get a bit annoyed. (maybe a double standard I know)

It's not about how much you can lift more, but which one is more efficient or effective. How do you know for sure that you supposedly have inferior genetics? For a lot, weightlifting isnt the priority of their training either.

Not only that trying to follow and maintain a quality heavylifting(I don't consider PLing the best routine for athletic) can mothersucking bitch. I think it is easier to maintain a hypertrophy routine then a strength routine.

And many jump into heavylifting too quickly without a decent strength-hypertrophy base.

Just to add fuel to the fire and play Devil's Advocate to Urban's...
Bodybuilding = training for appearance
Training for appearance = a good way to get smashed when competing in sport.

1) Evander Holyfield's training program was run by Mr. Olympia Lee Haney. This was during the peak of Holyfield's career. I'd say he did more of the smashing than the getting smashed.

2) Isn't everyone always raving about Phil Baroni's punching power? Another bodybuilder.


Admittedly, I'm just trying to be difficult with the last part my post there. :icon_twis

Evander had an hypertrophy/strength training not just hypertrophy training. He was a bloated LHW in HW. He had to work to get to the HW. There was an article about him quite while ago actually.

2) Again there might be a confounding factor or lurking variable that is in that equation.

Bodybuilding -> Phil Baroni -> Punch hard -> Bodybuilding makes him punch hard

That's a rather lame argument if you are trying to imply that stance.

By the way, Baroni stated that he doesnt lift anymore.

 

[KOU In3]

How do you know for sure that you supposedly have inferior genetics? .

Narrow shoulders, birdlike bone structure (wrists and ankles the size of most women's), came off to college at a whopping 140 pounds at 5'10". Get beaten like the proverbial red-headed stepchild even in pound for pound lifts by any real lifter... you get the idea.

Evander had an hypertrophy/strength training not just hypertrophy training. He was a bloated LHW in HW. He had to work to get to the HW. There was an article about him quite while ago actually.

I'll grant the hypertrophy/strength routine, but stand on the Mr. Olympia trainer and fire back with the fact that a LOT of MMAers have a similair problem. (Bloated middleweights up at LHW and bloated LHW up at HW in MMA)

Bodybuilding -> Phil Baroni -> Punch hard -> Bodybuilding makes him punch hard

That's a rather lame argument if you are trying to imply that stance.

Yeah, you're right. I had my rant earlier on in the post. I was just being difficult (and reaching a bit) on that one. :wink:

 

[Ted-P]

Narrow shoulders, birdlike bone structure (wrists and ankles the size of most women's), came off to college at a whopping 140 pounds at 5'10". Get beaten like the proverbial red-headed stepchild even in pound for pound lifts by any real lifter... you get the idea.

Eh......

Seen worse.

And there are other variables unseen by the naked eye.

 

[Duncon76]

Bodybuilding = training for appearance
Training for appearance = a good way to get smashed when competing in sport.
end of story.

Could not have said it better myself )))