Why all the hate for bodybuilding?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by KOU In3, Nov 21, 2005.

  1. KOU In3

    KOU In3 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    1
    Why all the hate for bodybuilding?

    I see it come up in lots of threads and every time bodybuilding comes up there is a huge amount of disdain. Yes, I understand that this is an MMA forum and not a vanity forum but hear me out before you flame.

    I read tons of threads on "How do I add muscle?", "How do I lean out and keep muscle?", "What should I eat to gain bulk/muscle/lose weight?". These are all bodybuilding topics.

    Then I read all kinds of mentions of bodybuilding muscles just being "for show" and not functional strength. Admittedly powerlifters have an edge on bodybuilders as to overall strength. But barring that, muscle is still muscle. Lifting for bodybuilding does not make for a weak athlete.

    I think the reason I've gotten so worked up over this is that I by no means see myself as someone who is strong overall. Nor do I see myself as strong pound for pound. I've worked out with too many people who are both of those things to delude myself into being that egotistical. Yet a lot of those on this forum with such a disdain for the bodybuilding are stil playing catch-up to this supposedly inferior training style.

    To some degree it comes down to "show me the money". I don't see the vast majority of those that are so anti-bodybuilding acheiving the results of those that lift following a bodybuilding style of training.

    Ok, you've heard me out. Flame away.
     
  2. Ted-P

    Ted-P Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,961
    Likes Received:
    2
    All matter of perspective.

    And it's not as hated as you think.

    I have seen disdain for others from each side.

    And what do you mean by catch up?
     
  3. Todd Gack

    Todd Gack Dutch

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    48,556
    Likes Received:
    7,292
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I started out more into bodybuilding before I got into powerlifting a few years ago. The point of this forum is strength and power, these being the main goals for training. Bodybuilding is strictly for show, in fact many bodybuilders will say that they don't care about hoisting heavy weights just so long as they are getting bigger and more symmetrical. This alone goes against most of the goals people have on this particular forum.

    One of the problems I have with bodybuilding is that the general public usually equates a persons appearance with strength and performance when really there isn't much of a correlation at all. I'm reminded of this every time I tell someone at work that I lift weights, the response is usually, "you don't look like you lift weights." I look at myself in the mirror and I can see what they mean but personally I could give two fucks. As long as I'm strong and fit, I don't really care what my body looks like. My motto is "train for performance and let your body follow."

    These could be considered bodybuilding topics but fact is, most fighters need to cut weight in order to make a certain weight class hence the "leaning out" topics. Some fighters want to move up in weight, hence the "bulking up" topics. That and, putting on weight can help you get stronger.

    I agree, there are some VERY strong bodybuilders out there. But the goals are still different. Yes you can get strong training like a bodybuilder BUT you'll get stronger with other methods (i.e. powerlifting). It's all relative to your own goals. Yes, there are bodybuilders stronger than me. Does that mean I would get stronger training like a bodybuilder? Absolutely not, fact is I am much stronger now that I train for strength and power.

    If bodybuilding is your thing, it would make more sense to go to a bodybuilding board, rather than this one.
     
  4. Ted-P

    Ted-P Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,961
    Likes Received:
    2
    Awesome post sonny.

    I'm too lazy to post anything like that unless I'm attacked or initiated.
     
  5. KOU In3

    KOU In3 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have to disagree here. As I've gotten bigger and heavier, I've gotten stronger as well. The same goes for my buddies who compete in strongman as well. The biggest error I see in public perception is the thought that ripped=stronger. I'll give you that part as being error on the general public.


    I understand that these are topics of concern for fighters. My point though is that using bodybuilding techniques will ultimately lead to a better result to some of these questions. So a disdain for all things bodybuilding would be kind of hypocritical IMO.

    Before you take up torches and pitchforks to banish me I should say that I am on a bodybuilding board as well. But as a fighter with 20 years of training at some level or another it seems that Sherdog would be a logical board for me to be on.

    Having just started BJJ, I've noticed that my time in the gym following a bodybuilding style lifting program helps immensely. So I find it odd to come onto here and find people bashing it left and right.
     
  6. Ted-P

    Ted-P Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,961
    Likes Received:
    2
    Bodybuilding is such an ugly word then. Bodybuilding is like what sonny and you said combined.

    Hypertrophy training I think would be much more preferable.

    I also have a post that says we don't bash hypertrophy too much.

    Have you ever tried heavy lifting?

    I just think it's more of a proficient style of training for strength and power than hypertrophy.
     
  7. anvar

    anvar Guest

    bodybuilding techniques are good now and them, but feel working out just to look good is a horrible way to spend your free time...work out to fight better :)
     
  8. Todd Gack

    Todd Gack Dutch

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    48,556
    Likes Received:
    7,292
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Getting bigger isn't designated to JUST bodybuilding though. People can get bigger without being a "bodybuilder" per se. Bodybuilding in my book is defined as someone who trains soley for appearance in order to meet certain bodybuilding "standards." Bodybuilders are more concerned with bringing up their delts instead of pressing more weight. Don't go thinking just because you're trying to bulk up that you're automatically a bodybuilder.

    True, bodybuilding methods may be more effective for the topics mentioned. However, this may also jeopardize performance in the end.

    Sorry, I wasn't trying to come off like that. I'm glad you've decided to come here and I hope you have more to contribute. I'm in no way asking you to leave.
     
  9. Ted-P

    Ted-P Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,961
    Likes Received:
    2
    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showpost.php?p=7095577&postcount=5

    Here is the post that can relate to Sonny's statement just now.

    This part of the board has been unfairly scrutinized by many and a lot of assumptions and misunderstandings around here.

    There might have been a few "OOOOooH RAH, kill bodybuilding" type of posts, but I don't think it's a big deal.
     
  10. Todd Gack

    Todd Gack Dutch

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    48,556
    Likes Received:
    7,292
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Leave it to Entropy to make sense of it all. :D

    This whole debate is really dependant on ones definition of bodybuilding. If someone is trying to bulk up but is focusing on heavy compound lifts at the same time I wouldn't REALLY consider that bodybuilding.

    On the other hand, if someone is losing sleep because their left pec is 0.0000001 millimeters smaller than their right pec and they've decided to remedy the problem by doing 52 sets of cable flies, 3 times week. I would consider that bodybuilding.
     
  11. Tornado

    Tornado Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2002
    Messages:
    866
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    because they don't understand it's role in strength training. bodybuilders exploit techniques specifically to hypertrophy muscles. is this bad? Unless you compete in a sport with weightclasses, no. everyone should bodybuild from time to time to give their joints and nerves a rest from pure strength and power work.

    edit: they being bodybuilders. but strength and power athletes should understand that periods geared toward hypertrophy will help their strength and improve their athletic longevity.
     
  12. KOU In3

    KOU In3 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thanks for the links and clarification. It's making a bit more sense when put in perspective. As a newer member (although I lurked for some time) the comments did strike me a bit differently.

    I think there is a fine line between hypertrohy training and bodybuilding. I suppose you could say it is crossed when the focus is more on proportions and conditioning than muscle growth. Fair enough there and to that end I can see the disdain for the last half by Sherdoggers.

    Although I'm too much of a duffer to be so vain as to consider myself a 'real' bodybuilder, I do have to admit to being guilty of lifting merely to put on the muscle for its own sake for some time. During a relatively long enforced layoff from fighting, muscle size became more of a goal for its own sake than outright strength or cross-training performance.

    Chasing bodyweight goals at least gave me something to pursue as it seemed more tangible than adding another 20 pounds to my benchpress.

    As to the heavy lifting question, I switched to an almost purely hypertrophy focus a few months ago (PRS- power, rep-range, shock) and have been happier with my progress with it than previous programs. I think I'll try a more classical periodized strength based program next year though.
     
  13. dogmai

    dogmai Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2005
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Concord, CA
    Same thing as Sprinting v. Distance running. Each style has its benefits and pitfalls depending on what it is you are working towards in your routine, and by all means you should never blatantly disregard anything.
     
  14. Zeirhk

    Zeirhk Green Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,143
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm currently following a bodybuilding type of training, the old 3 sets of 8 to 12 reps (I'm temporarly following your advice Ted-P). The only reason is that my goal is hypertrophy, and I feel that no man should weight under 150 lbs. (I'm 130 lbs. *HOLY FUCK!!!!*) After that I'm dropping reps, and doing something like 5x5, or 10x3, shit like that. Still doing the 3 big lifts though....obiviously.

    BTW I didn't try out that article ENTROPY was explaining. :D
     
  15. Diligent

    Diligent Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Irving, TX
    I don't HATE bodybuilding .... For me, it all comes down to a matter of what one's priorities and goals are. If you are a bodybuilder ... then of course, you train like a bodybuilder. On the other hand, if you are a wrestler or grappler ... then you train like a wrestler/grappler. Hence, for me (someone who wrestles and does BJJ) doing concentration curls, calf raises, hamstring curls, etc. ... are basically something that I would not want to spend my time doing when I COULD be doing/training more applicable/practical movements and techniques ....

    Now, there are some guys who do MMA/grapple/kickboxing/etc. ... and they do bodybuilder workouts along with there other training ... and they're successful. Everyone is different and everyone has their one opinion and concepts on training ... and in my opinion, training like a bodybuilder would be a waste of time and effort for someone who grapples or does MMA ... although, I'm not saying they wouldn't benefit at all from a bodybuilder routine.

    The very essence of bodybuilding is rooted in "looks" and "visual presence". I don't like that. I used to be into that when I was in my teens, but as someone who throws down on the mat on a regular basis, I came to learn very quickly that "looks" mean jack-squat in fighting/grappling. I mean, what do bodybuilders train for? They lift all of these weights, diet like crazy, perfect these posing routines, use all of the supplements ... and what do they do with it? They go onto a stage in a thong and pose for people, then walk off. That, to me, is sad ... in a sense that wonderful athletes put so much effort in to be "judged" by some yuppies on who "looks the best".

    Like I said, I guess it all just depends on what your priorities and goals are ...
     
  16. ShadowNINku

    ShadowNINku SANDBAGGER BELT

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,350
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    The SnP OG House
    The Snp forum made my legs too heavy from all the heavy leg exercises.....now all the peole in my division look uber big compared to me with these fat ass muscular legs....for bjj?mma who needs a 400 lb squat???? more like 225 12 times...no??
     
  17. Tornado

    Tornado Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2002
    Messages:
    866
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    correction - the very essence of modern bodybuilding is rooted in looks. the oldtime definition of bodybuilding literally meant building a body the way you would a fortress.
     
  18. Diligent

    Diligent Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Irving, TX
    Yes. I wish I were alive back then to see those guys ... but then again, I wouldn't have the luxery of having double-quilted toilet paper.... :D
     
  19. #1can

    #1can Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Messages:
    944
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Canada
    {rant}

    I agree with the thread starter at least a little bit. The simple fact is, any repeated resistance movement will make you stronger. So therefore why should conversation over a specific resistance movement (curls, etc.) be frowned upon? I am by no means someone who sits and does concentration curls for an hour and leaves, in fact i have never done concentration curls, but that is beside the point. Someone may counter by saying fine, its not about the exercises, its about the purpose. So why do people talk about bulking all the time, sure, the answers given in this forum are usually straightforward: squat, dead bench; but, I am sure that bodybuilders know at least a little something about bulking, and whatever mystical techniques they used can be applied anywhere to anyone who is not currently entering powerlifting meets or strongman competitions, which seems to be an overwhelming majority in this forum.

    Not that i have anything against powerlifting or strongman-types, just i also dont really have anything against bodybuilders, unless they are juice pigs who flex in front of the mirror.

    {\rant}
     
  20. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Amateur Fighter

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2004
    Messages:
    6,117
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    asia
    Personally, I have no hate for bodybuilding, it has its own place, but doing bodybuilding type workouts if you are an athlete is a cause for potential hindrancee in performance.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.