Whose title is more fraudulent?

BEATDOWNS said:
TS everytime someone makes a valid argument itt.

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HavokHarmon said:
GSP beat the champion for the title and Jones beat the highest ranked contender for the title.
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So why is that distinction so important to you? They were both long reigning champs that took years off from the sport and then came back and immediately became champion in their first fight at the next higher weight class. How is one any better or worse than the other? The biggest difference has to be GSP's weight class difference was only 15lbs while Jon Jones' weight class difference was 60lbs.
 
Only Here for Attachments said:
"Jon couldn't even take down Santos, Smith, or Reyes" was thrown around a lot. I remember plenty of people saying that Gane would be Jon's toughest test yet and would probably win by KO.
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Jon took Reyes down twice. He only attempted 1 TD on Santos and Smith he had 3 TDs and nearly 13 minutes of control time. Select people "Throwing Around" shit that isn't based in reality isn't "Everyone saying Cyril will dominate Jon".

The simple reality is Jon beat a guy and GSP beat The GUY. The OP's query has 1 answer. Jon's title lineage is Dubious at best. Frankly that isn't Jon's fault completely. When a title is vacated there should be a minimum of a 4 man tourney and preferably an 8 man. Throwing 2 randoms into a fight and calling the winner the "Undisputed" champion rings very hollow. Cejudo wasn't a legit BW champion won a vacant title and never defended against a real contender. Charles wasn't the best LW in the UFC for beating Michael Chandler. Once he beat Dustin and Justin his lineage was validated. Jon won a vacant belt and defending it against Stipe when there is an actual Interim Champ who actually defended that title is laughable. Hopefully he fights Tom or just retires immediately after his Stipe fight.
 
Cartiac said:
So why is that distinction so important to you? They were both long reigning champs that took years off from the sport and then came back and immediately became champion in their first fight at the next higher weight class. How is one any better or worse than the other? The biggest difference has to be GSP's weight class difference was only 15lbs while Jon Jones' weight class difference was 60lbs.
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GSP beat the reigning champion and Jon beat some random who was a perfect style match up. Jon has 1 fight at HW and it wasn't against a champion.
 
Are we really comparing Bisping to Gane ? Also how is Gane a sub optimal opponent, when he has grappling wins unders belt. It is possible no HW can deal with jones grappling on the ground. I also do not think Bisping is sub optimal. Bisping is a servicable fighter but to compare him to Gane is ridiculous.


I also love how a bunch of sherdog couch potatoes who wrestle their chips want to call MMA fighters who actually put on gloves frauds.
 
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Only Here for Attachments said:
That's some top-level mental gymnastics.
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Failed title challenger doesn't make you the best in the world. Was Dan Hardy the best WW in the world after GSP beat his ass? Was Paulo Costa the best MW when Izzy beat his ass? Cyril is pretty good but he isn't and wasn't ever a champion.

Jon has never beat a HW champion. He has only beat 1 HW who happened to be a perfect style match up for him. That is simply fact no gymnastics needed.

I think Jon could possibly run through a lot of the HWs in the UFC but we will never know if he doesn't actually fight anyone.
 
Cartiac said:
So why is that distinction so important to you? They were both long reigning champs that took years off from the sport and then came back and immediately became champion in their first fight at the next higher weight class. How is one any better or worse than the other? The biggest difference has to be GSP's weight class difference was only 15lbs while Jon Jones' weight class difference was 60lbs.
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Because if it wasn’t important we would scrap the title structure entirely. The UFC could assign new title fights in every division on every event if it wasn’t.

For the record, I don’t consider either title reign to be fraudulent. But if we’re going to ask which one is the most legitimate (or least fraudulent) then we have to consider that only one of them actually beat the lineal champ. You’re arguing that Jones’ win was more impressive, but that’s a different conversation entirely. I may even be inclined to agree with you on that point. I think it’s too close to call but I can see the argument either way.
 
Ares Black said:
*Ciryl
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Tapology still brings his profile up when I type Cyril... <lol>

dipstickjimmy said:
Failed title challenger doesn't make you the best in the world. Was Dan Hardy the best WW in the world after GSP beat his ass? Was Paulo Costa the best MW when Izzy beat his ass? Cyril is pretty good but he isn't and wasn't ever a champion.
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If GSP had left immediately after beating Dan Hardy, he'd probably still be up there. Even though that fight predates UFC's official rankings. Title losers typically don't drop very far in the rankings.
 
RedDevilFan said:
Are we really comparing Bisping to Gane ? Also how is Gane a sub optimal opponent, when he has grappling wins unders belt. It is possible no HW can deal with jones grappling on the ground. I also do not think Bisping is sub optimal. Bisping is a servicable fighter but to compare him to Gane is ridiculous.


I also love how a bunch of sherdog couch potataoes who wrestle their chips want to call MMA fighters who actually put on gloves frauds.
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Gane has 9-2 record in the UFC HW division. 8 ranked opponents and 6-2 record. Bisping has 29 fights in the UFC 4-1 record at LHW, At MW he has 24 fights and while I am too lazy to check rankings at the time the majority were top 10. 16-8 record and 11 of those fights were with one eye. Bisping won the Undisputed UFC MW championship while Gane won the UFC #1 contender belt. Maybe Gane COULD be a better MMA fighter then Bisping but he hasn't proven it yet. Gane is a very good kickboxer and he has only faced one guy with high level TDs and he got schooled. Gane's success is primarily due to a massive dearth of HWs with any wrestling right now.
 
Only Here for Attachments said:
Tapology still brings his profile up when I type Cyril... <lol>



If GSP had left immediately after beating Dan Hardy, he'd probably still be up there. Even though that fight predates UFC's official rankings. Title losers typically don't drop very far in the rankings.
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UFC ranking and actually being the best in the world are not always the same thing.
Every title challenger somehow catapults up the rankings. Its pretty hard to market Champion X is fighting the # 8 ranked fighter in the case of Khalil or the Unranked Stipe. In fact Stipe is showing as #8 somehow? I just looked it up. I guess GSP is still #1 at WW??? Khabib is still ranked #1 at LW??

Use your brain and apply some critical thinking. Stop letting the UFC tell you who the best in the world is and make them SHOW you by putting on the fights.

Jon isn't the best HW in the UFC he only has 1 win in his entire career as a HW.
If you are a Jon fan why do you want to proclaim him the best without seeing him actually fight?
 
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