title defenses don't mean as much as you think

AdamWarlock

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people here like to bring up title defenses as an end all for all time ranking discussion

which is stupid

the divisions are much steeper than what it used to be. so to get a title shot you need like 10 straight wins against absolute killers now compared to 20 years ago when you only need to win 3 times before getting a shot

look at dariush. he never gotten a title shot and he won bajillion fights only because he was not marketable like some others in dana's eyes. look at belal, look at arman, you see what im saying?

if gsp, jones silva is in today's climate they wouldn't have a chance to reach double digit title defenses until they are 40, just because the game is involved, fights are harder, division is much steeper

anybody that cannot see that and holding dear life on title defenses are straight stupid, just look at the fight itself and make the judgement, it's not hard. the levels of fighters today are just better

anderson silva never had to fight back to back on pereira, izzy, ddp level competition. gsp wasn't facing usman, shavkat, leon edwards level in his reign

start trying to see the bigger picture. fighters today change weight class as well. and it's a normal thing to do, as you get older you need to move up weight classes. expecting a champ to forever stay in his division and not move up is stupid.
 
Title defenses mean a lot.

Some people think counting title defenses is everything. It feels like the toxic ring culture of team sports repackaged for fighting.

The classic case is Aldo v Volk. Volks is undefeated against the 145 greats, Aldos winnless. But Aldo has a few more title defenses. They think Aldo is clearly better because of the title defenses. Thats fucking wild.
 
ferrisjso said:
Title defenses mean a lot.

Some people think title counting title defenses is everything. It feels like the toxic ring culture of team sports repackaged for fighting.

The classic case is Aldo v Volk. Volks is undefeated against the 145 greats, Aldos winnless. But Aldo has a few more title defenses. They think Aldo is clearly better because of the title defenses. Thats fucking wild.
Click to expand...
And yet Volk (and Holloway) both cite Aldo as the GOAT.

Alexander Volkanovski calls Jose Aldo featherweight GOAT ahead of UFC 301: 'He's how a champion should be'​


Volkanovski admitted Aldo’s UFC record seven title defenses at featherweight makes him the greatest in the history of the division.


“I can appreciate what Aldo’s done, you know what I mean,” Volkanovski said. “That’s for other people to decide but you know for me, if you’re going to ask me, I’m going to say Aldo because you know, he was a champion for a very long time.


“Obviously, people are going to look at competition and all that, but to be champion that long, things go wrong. You fight injured, there’s so many things that can go wrong and to be champion that long, it’s saying something. He was very dominant as champion, as well, so full respect to Aldo.”

 
100% with you OP.

We talk about “rankings are a promo tool” and “he doesn’t draw enough for a title shot” because “it’s a business not a sport” then we pretend like ranked and title wins have legitimacy and other fights don’t lol.
 
HHJ said:
They don't means as much as people try to make them as.

Sometimes a fighter may take a long time to get a shot at a belt and beat alot of the best guys on the way up.
Click to expand...
This is why I hold max in the highest of regards

He got dicked around getting his title shot and when he got it finally, he unseated the FW goat twice in a row. he had to go on a 10 fight winstreak to get that chance, and he didn't fight cupcakes, He had to go through Stephens, Swanson, lamas, Oliveria, and pettis before getting his shot.

People want to view him as lesser because he doesn't have many defenses, but he beat a former title challenger, a former LW champ, and 2 other top 5s before getting a shot.
 
They should called it the UFS. The Ultimate Fighting Spectacle and get rid of the belt. Since they just want to put on fights people want to see.
 
Jackonfire said:
And yet Volk (and Holloway) both cite Aldo as the GOAT.

Alexander Volkanovski calls Jose Aldo featherweight GOAT ahead of UFC 301: 'He's how a champion should be'​


Volkanovski admitted Aldo’s UFC record seven title defenses at featherweight makes him the greatest in the history of the division.


“I can appreciate what Aldo’s done, you know what I mean,” Volkanovski said. “That’s for other people to decide but you know for me, if you’re going to ask me, I’m going to say Aldo because you know, he was a champion for a very long time.


“Obviously, people are going to look at competition and all that, but to be champion that long, things go wrong. You fight injured, there’s so many things that can go wrong and to be champion that long, it’s saying something. He was very dominant as champion, as well, so full respect to Aldo.”

Click to expand...


Ah yes George Foreman once said he was terrified of Joe Frazier. Jon Jones once said he considered Tito Ortiz the GOAT. Humble people say the darndest things sometimes.
 
ferrisjso said:
Ah yes George Foreman once said he was terrified of Joe Frazier. Jon Jones once said he considered Tito Ortiz the GOAT. Humble people say the darndest things sometimes.
Click to expand...
GSP:

“It’s very hard to be champion in the UFC but it’s harder to stay champion. Everybody can shine one night but to be consistent, that’s the hard part.."
 
You have to go by what era they fought in. Jones, GSP, Silva all fought the best of their era, and that's all you ask of them. That's like saying Mohamed Ali's record isn't as legit as Tyson Fury, and that's ridiculous. Title defenses mean you fought the best guys every fight, and that means a lot in my book, no matter what era they fought in.
 
AdamWarlock said:
people here like to bring up title defenses as an end all for all time ranking discussion

which is stupid

the divisions are much steeper than what it used to be. so to get a title shot you need like 10 straight wins against absolute killers now compared to 20 years ago when you only need to win 3 times before getting a shot

look at dariush. he never gotten a title shot and he won bajillion fights only because he was not marketable like some others in dana's eyes. look at belal, look at arman, you see what im saying?

if gsp, jones silva is in today's climate they wouldn't have a chance to reach double digit title defenses until they are 40, just because the game is involved, fights are harder, division is much steeper

anybody that cannot see that and holding dear life on title defenses are straight stupid, just look at the fight itself and make the judgement, it's not hard. the levels of fighters today are just better

anderson silva never had to fight back to back on pereira, izzy, ddp level competition. gsp wasn't facing usman, shavkat, leon edwards level in his reign

start trying to see the bigger picture. fighters today change weight class as well. and it's a normal thing to do, as you get older you need to move up weight classes. expecting a champ to forever stay in his division and not move up is stupid.
Click to expand...


Nope...

Title defenses are the only fair comparison, Era to Era...as yes the divisions are steeper but the champions have advanced along side of them too ...

So era to era its the only true accurate measure of a champion...everyone knows this..

Changing the narrative to fit your favorite fighter is copium ...
 
Jackonfire said:
GSP:

“It’s very hard to be champion in the UFC but it’s harder to stay champion. Everybody can shine one night but to be consistent, that’s the hard part.."
Click to expand...

I value title defenses. Perhaps more than anything else. But y'all are taking it too far. Back in the day we were arguing about Fedor and Wandys competition I was on team title defense.

The reasons title defenses mean more is the opponents are better. Counting them is not everything because each defense isn't equal.

I considered Jones the GOAT with 2 title defenses where I wrote a passionate op ed for my HS paper arguing he was the GOAT. Because in my mind he proved he proved he was superior to AS who at the time was considered the GOAT. All the kids at my HS laughed at me for saying that shit and thought I was being disrespectful to AS. No I wasn't I was just saying the truth. Jones didn't need 10 title defenses to pass AS as the GOAT and Volk did not need whatever number you think Aldo has.
 
Paolo Delutis said:
Nope...

Title defenses are the only fair comparison, Era to Era...as yes the divisions are steeper but the champions have advanced along side of them too ...

So era to era its the only true accurate measure of a champion...everyone knows this..

Changing the narrative to fit your favorite fighter is copium ...
Click to expand...
Too black and white.

Situation can be more complicated than that. Most people complaining about this is because its harder and dont like having to use that brain power.

Two title defenses against Poatan > 5 title defenses against any other guys in that div.
 
"Anyone that doesn't think how I think is stupid"


Thanks for sharing bud.

You know what's really fun?

Hearing about how every current champion is the new GOAT with less than 1/3 the title defenses or career longevity as their predecessors.
 
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