White boxers

[Sinister]

But virtually every country has some dirt in its history. Should no one be proud to be German simply because of some asshole's megalomania? Should Italians disavow their heritage because The Romans ran over damn near everything on the European continent in their quest to build the greatest empire the world had ever seen? Liberians and Nicaraguans have dealt with their fair share of genocide, but should they somehow disavow their roots because of it? Name one country that hasn't totally screwed someone over in the course of its history and I'll show you a country that doesn't exist.

Acknowledging Historical screwing is one thing, being proud of them is something else entirely. But that's why I said it depends on where your heritage lies. Some people should be ashamed of what their ancestors did, sure, to some degree.

I have mixed blood, on one side of my Family were slave owners, and on the other were slaves. I'm definitely NOT proud of the slave owners' deeds.

I'd feel less strong about it as it pertains to America, though, if our History wasn't so grossly poisoned to this day with racism and bullshit. Who is perpetuating that nonsense? I'll tell you who, same type of people who were calling Larry Holmes and threatening to kill him if he beat up Cooney.

 

[Cracky]

But virtually every country has some dirt in its history. Should no one be proud to be German simply because of some asshole's megalomania? Should Italians disavow their heritage because The Romans ran over damn near everything on the European continent in their quest to build the greatest empire the world had ever seen? Liberians and Nicaraguans have dealt with their fair share of genocide, but should they somehow disavow their roots because of it? Name one country that hasn't totally screwed someone over in the course of its history and I'll show you a country that doesn't exist.

That said, add on top of that the fact that America is a culteral melting pot and that what little culture our ancestors brought over from their old countries has, for the most part, disolved.

Please, define your culture for me. The difference is that most German's could. They could lay out their german culture for you with ease. Same with Cubans, same with different regions of africans, same with chinese, same with Australians, Italians, etc. etc.

 

[JSN]

why is this thread such a bee's nest? i think TS makes a solid point, although one could hardly call it THE factor in media coverage- more just one of many minor ones.

 

[The Brand]

The media controls what a lot of people think without them even knowing it. Never underestimat the power of the media.

 

[valid]

It's delusional to think that there's no sense of racial/nationalistic pride in Sports. Always has been, always will be.

absolutely , calzaghe vs hopkins comes to mind.

 

[valid]

maybe, but I just don't see white people having that much racial pride..

they do. Though a huge majority of white americans don't. But it's part of the culture. When a white american kid watches tv ,he's exposed to all sorts of programs , when you're young sports usually take a big part of your life and what does the kid sees on tv ? Other white people worshiping black athletes , just like his dad , he watches basketball , NFL , boxing , sees blacks dominating and feels totally comfortable with it.

They live in a society where black history month , positive discrimination is part of the culture. America's future president could be Obama. It's called ethno-masochism. some compare it to "white liberal self hate caused by media conditioning" , but it goes deeper than that.

Some have the same masochism only with religion. For instance brits , germans & french people have no problem seeing their country islamized. Some do. But most don't have the balls to talk about it because they're scared to be labeled as racists. In the end , it'll all end up in a massive civil war if nothing is being done but that's another story.

Some whites still have some pride though. (such as russians and some eastern europeans).

On top of that, our American heratige isn't exactly the most positive thing to look back on.

You could find horrible and positive deeds in all nations of the world. Americans aren't an exception.

I'm not ashamed to be white. I just feel no connection to it at all. I think a lot of white people are the same way.

You're just confirming your conditioning. Like i said earlier. It seems "normal".

 

[valid]

Maybe its the "White Hope" in a non-racist way.

"white hope" was invented by white americans. Of course it's racist. Just as racist as a "black history month". Black history month is insulting towards black themselves , it insults their intelligence and puts a finger on the "difference" , between them and everybody else. Whites don't need a single history month because they have all 11 other months of the year , get it ?

"white hope" is an imaginary position.(thanks to dempsey i guess) Invented due to the fact that blacks kept and keep dominating to this day , all white americans whenever sports is concerned. They saw the face of boxing changing from all white , to all black...same goes for football and basketball.

to most whites , (outside of america) , "white hope" is a foreign & absurd expression. Try to talk about a "white hope" to your average eastern european and he won't comput.

 

[valid]

It's the same with basketball. The best white basketball players in the NBA are European. Now how the hell did that happen. Never underestimate the powers of the media.

absolutely , most white players who are worth something in basketball are all imported talents. From spain , argentina , germany , eastern europe , canada..etc

 

[SideofKO]

Acknowledging Historical screwing is one thing, being proud of them is something else entirely. But that's why I said it depends on where your heritage lies. Some people should be ashamed of what their ancestors did, sure, to some degree.

I have mixed blood, on one side of my Family were slave owners, and on the other were slaves. I'm definitely NOT proud of the slave owners' deeds.

I'd feel less strong about it as it pertains to America, though, if our History wasn't so grossly poisoned to this day with racism and bullshit. Who is perpetuating that nonsense? I'll tell you who, same type of people who were calling Larry Holmes and threatening to kill him if he beat up Cooney.

I just wanted to comment that you've provided balanced and valid points in this thread.

 

[Cracky]

I just wanted to comment that you've provided balanced and valid points in this thread.

I dont think him saying I was being racist was all that balanced.

The point of this whole thread was that:
When a person of color becomes an icon in a sport that their race is under-represented in, it is largely do to the majority race's(i.e. white consumers) support. Tiger wouldn't be as big as he is if white people didn't embrace him. The williams sisters couldnt either. Yao couldnt either..etc.
However, when that happens, nobody cares why they are successful. They just are.
But, when a white boxer gathers support, it's different. It has to be because "white people are looking for the next great white hope". It can't just be because his race is under-represented at the top of boxing, and people want to see the stereotypes and expectations of failure broken.
People want to see that anything can be done by anyone with enough hard work and heart.

King put me in a position to answer something completely unrelated to my point.

Is it wrong for a white person to support somebody out of pride for their race? No. It's not wrong. I just don't think it happens for the majority of white people though. Yet, that's the expectation every time a white fighter starts to gain popularity in America.

 

[Iosephus]

i usually cheer the white american fighters. i dont know why, maybe i find more in common. and they seem to be an oddity for the most part. ive always liked pavlik and the way he carries himself... the quiet type, good character, good fighter, pale like me.

last hometown fighter was vargas, and there have only been a few other successes from the area. being a local fighter trump anything unless theyre some unsavory motherfucker, but ask yourself what attracts you to certain fighters? other than style, i think you'd be fooling yourself if race/nationality doesnt play a part... even to you

 

[SideofKO]

I dont think him saying I was being racist was all that balanced.

The point of this whole thread was that:
When a person of color becomes an icon in a sport that their race is under-represented in, it is largely do to the majority race's(i.e. white consumers) support. Tiger wouldn't be as big as he is if white people didn't embrace him. The williams sisters couldnt either. Yao couldnt either..etc.
However, when that happens, nobody cares why they are successful. They just are.
But, when a white boxer gathers support, it's different. It has to be because "white people are looking for the next great white hope". It can't just be because his race is under-represented at the top of boxing, and people want to see the stereotypes and expectations of failure broken.
People want to see that anything can be done by anyone with enough hard work and heart.

King put me in a position to answer something completely unrelated to my point.

Is it wrong for a white person to support somebody out of pride for their race? No. It's not wrong. I just don't think it happens for the majority of white people though. Yet, that's the expectation every time a white fighter starts to gain popularity in America.

It would be balanced if it were true. You could definitely make a remark that he finds racist. He found it racist.

I said that he has provided balanced and valid points, not that everyone of his points has been balanced and valid. I found the bulk of his rhetoric to be on point.

 

[SUGARSHANERULEZ]

Who is perpetuating that nonsense? I'll tell you who, same type of people who were calling Larry Holmes and threatening to kill him if he beat up Cooney.

"you're a half breed and whites bleed"

Larry Holmes to David Bey.

 

[IrishAssassin13]

I think thats partially true. I also think its about the country of origin more so than race. Im gonna root for an Irish guy even though Im Irish American just like a mexican american is gonna fly a mexican flag instead of an American flag. since theres 40million Irish americans in the country theyre going to get excited when one of their own cracks the top. thats why white people dont care about Klitchko as much cause theyre arent as many Russians in the country. put a shamrock on him and call him O'klitchko and watch peple go apeshit.

 

[Mithra]

I'd agree with that to an extent, Tiger is Tiger because of his ability more than his race but that certainly has a little something to do with it.

 

[Fat Abbot]

Race/nationality play no part in who I like.

GSP for instance, I generally root against him. I'm part french and live in Canada. Something about the guy and his style I just don't enjoy.

Most of mty favorite boxers are Black and American, even though I'm neither Black nor American that does make sense because most of the top boxers throughout history were.

 

[TOUBABO KOOMI]

FAIL. especially in the boxing era we are in now. 10 years ago this would have been a good thread.

 

[scottie2hotttie]

I personally believe most minorities can't stand it when a white fighter succeeds...just look at these boards and all the excuses that fly around when the favorite black guy loses to whitey. But there sure are a lot of white belt holders for the few that are proportionally active in boxing as compared to the huge numbers of minorities.

 

[a jessup]

The point is what makes them rare, IS their race. If it weren't for that, what would be the rarity?



Are you serious? Ever hear of Marciano? Ever hear of Mancini? Ever hear of Dempsey? Ever hear of Cooney? These are the Fighters Caucasian America most readily identified with. And perhaps the detachment also stems from the History of Caucasian American Boxing, such as Dempsey's "White Hope" tournament to find someone to beat "The Brown Bomber"...and stating when Louis lost that it was the best thing that could have happened for the Sport at the time.

Pavlik is the next in-line, and while I don't think it's a bad thing that anyone has racial or nationalistic pride that they express through whom they like in Sports of whatever, at the same time I don't think there's a need to start a race war.

True, but up until the fifties you had larger, more identifiable groups of ethnic whites. Now, however, the white immigrant groups have assimilated into the mainstream and few white Americans consider themselves ethnic. Most American immigrants since 1965 have been Hispanic, and that's where most of the sports tribalism emanates from now IMO. I agree that Joe Louis and other black fighters didn't get their due during their careers. For example, if you listen to the fighter introductions during Louis/Schmeling II, it sounds like Max got the loudest cheers despite being an icon for Nazi Germany. I doubt that the average white American was really rooting for Louis and I think some historians have exaggerated American antipathy towards Hitler.

I don't understand your comment about "starting a race war". I don't think the white fans who root for and identify with Pavlik have a driving need to slag boxers of other races. With the exception of his comments after Miranda fight, Pavlik has been very respectful towards his opponents and I suspect his fans appreciate his modesty and manners. That's why the Ghost lets his trainer do the trash talking.

 

[a jessup]

Race/nationality play no part in who I like.

GSP for instance, I generally root against him. I'm part french and live in Canada. Something about the guy and his style I just don't enjoy.

Most of mty favorite boxers are Black and American, even though I'm neither Black nor American that does make sense because most of the top boxers throughout history were.

Well, I'm also part French and it's nice to see that there's a few of us who can fight. Vas-Y GSP! :icon_twis