1. The official Sherdog Store is back! Check it out! » Discuss it here! »

White boxers

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by Cracky, Jun 8, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Cracky Fanny Pack

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    12,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Norman,OK
    You're speaking of a different erra when talking of Dempsey and Marciano. When civil rights were a big issue and open racisim was common. The country hadn't yet begun to disown it's past in reference to slavery and the treatment of minorities.

    I think people identified with Cooney and Mancini because they were different than everyone else at the top. White americans, that could fight. The same is true with Tiger Woods. Part of the reason he stood out was because he was a black man in a white dominated sport. The williams sisters were black women in a white dominated sport. They aren't even the best players..but in female tennis(and maybe even tennis over-all) they are the most well known and marketable. The same with Yao. He's not the best basketball player, but he's different and that pulls in fans.

    We are dealing with a different generation of white folks. I don't believe that this generation assigns much value at all to the color of anybodies skin. It's not fair or accurate for anyone to suggest that Kelly Pavlik is only blowing up because he's the next "great white hope". He's different, he's a class act, and he fights with heart and skill. The fact that he's white only makes him stand out amongst his fellow boxers at the world class level.
    That was the point of me posting this. Because, in the past, people have suggested that he only gets support because he's a white guy.
     
  2. Cracky Fanny Pack

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    12,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Norman,OK
    hmm..my posts aren't showing up
     
  3. Jundon! Banned Banned

    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,242
    Likes Received:
    0
    No.

    taking over the world lol.
     
  4. The Brand Guest

    The media promotes minorities and minority fighters way more than they promote whites. I think a lot of whites grew up in this country seeing no white champions and just figured that whites weren't good enough to box. Meanwhile, over in eastern europe they didn't grow up with this fear and therefore a lot more whites turned out to box and they ended up doing pretty well. I think it's the same thing with mma. The reason you see so many good white fighers is because a lot of the early champions were white and it encouraged young white kids to go out for the sport.
     
  5. Travis Trayer Amateur Fighter

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    12,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan
    I think Kelly being white only adds a little flavor of fun for me really. I'd still like him no matter what race he is because of what he does in the ring. My favorite boxer is a black guy so I don't think race has much of an issue on my end.

    I agree with the thread starter though. In a sport that is predominately dominated by non-whites it makes it interesting to see a white guy do so well. Like with Tiger in golf. Although Tiger is just ridiculous when it comes to golf.
     
  6. The Brand Guest

    It's the same with basketball. The best white basketball players in the NBA are European. Now how the hell did that happen. Never underestimate the powers of the media.
     
  7. prosa123 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    0
    Much of Pavlik's image seems to be based not on his race, but on the fact that he's from Youngstown, a very run-down Rust Belt city sorely in need of a hero.
     
  8. The Brand Guest

    Youngstown has always had a good boxing history and it was always big in the city, so he probably benefitted from all of the local gyms available. How many boxing gyms are you going to find in today's suburbs. The only boxing gyms you're going to find are little hole in the wall shit holes in the inner city.
     
  9. Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,794
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Vegas
    It just seems that on one hand you're using the race card, suggesting Tiger Woods, the Williams Sisters, and Yao Ming's fame are based more on race than anything, and then attempting to disqualify that for a white guy.

    Sounds kinda racist if you ask me.
     
  10. Tam-Tam Management vs Labour

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Messages:
    21,688
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NoBSBoxing.com
    Sherdog is ill equipped to handle a racial debate.
     
  11. Cracky Fanny Pack

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    12,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Norman,OK
    No.. you're not getting what I'm saying. I'm saying that race is the reason that all these people stand out.. However, the idea that it's based on some sense of pride or a specific races feeling of racial superiority is what I am attacking.
     
  12. Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,794
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Vegas
    There's very few Internet forums that are. Virtual anonymity tends to bring out idiocy.

    But did you not also say that race is WHY Fighters like Pavlik stood out. That the fact that he's Caucasian American and the MW King makes him rare?

    If that's so, then are you saying there's something inherently wrong with people feeling pride over that? Because unfortunately it's obvious that a lot of people do, and it's also obvious it's being marketed that way by his Promoters.
     
  13. Cracky Fanny Pack

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    12,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Norman,OK
    Thats true. He's portrayed as the hard working average american much the way Mancini was. That sells
     
  14. Cracky Fanny Pack

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    12,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Norman,OK
    those are the best gyms in the world imo.. the hole in the wall ones.
     
  15. Joey M. Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    5,254
    Likes Received:
    0
    As opposed to minorities who all come from the same place?

    Are you one of those people who thinks that all black people look alike and therefore must have all come from the same place? Because, truly, black people only come from Africa; it's completely absurd to think that they also come from the UK, France, India, Brazil, Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago, Barbados, Cuba, or Haiti. All black people come only from Africa.

    The same thing applies to Latinos; they only come from Mexico. The residents of Panama, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Colombia, Argentina, Guatemala, Peru, and Bolivia all speak the same language as most Mexicans, so those countries must not be any different either, right?

    First off, fuck you; American heritage is nothing to be ashamed of.

    Secondly, there are a lot of white people who are proud of their Irish, English, Italian, French, German, Austrian, Russian, Scandanavian (i.e. Norweigan, Swedish, etc.) and Dutch heritage. Maybe if you took a minute to really look around instead of trying to sort everyone into overly-broad racial categories, you'd see that.
     
  16. Cracky Fanny Pack

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    12,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Norman,OK

    How is it any different than the Williams sisters? They stand out because of their race. There's no way around that. It's not about racial pride, because in order to acheive the success that they have they would have had to attract the majority race in America...= white folks. Same with tiger. It's about seeing something done that doesnt happen too often(if ever).
     
  17. Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,794
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Vegas
    Er, don't act like American History isn't edited to be Eurocentric. The Europeans that came here were by-and-large not nice. Not that this should be held against anyone who isn't reaping benefits off that now, but still, depending on where your heritage lies being proud of attempts of genocide isn't exactly cool.

    I think you completely missed my question, I'll make it simple:

    Is it wrong for Caucasian Americans to feel proud for Kelly Pavlik because he is a Caucasian American who won the Middleweight Crown?
     
  18. Cracky Fanny Pack

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    12,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Norman,OK

    Chill out emo

    Ofcourse black people come from all over, but, in America, they have a binding history that instills a common thread of pride through every minority imo. White people do not. Our ancestors built this country on the backs of other races. How can anybody find anything to be proud of in there.


    That said, people are getting all worked up. This was only intended to go against the idea that Pavlik was only blowing up because he was white. I'm not going to take it any further than that.. not in the boxing forum anyways.
     
  19. Cracky Fanny Pack

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    12,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Norman,OK
    No it's not wrong.
     
  20. Joey M. Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    5,254
    Likes Received:
    0
    But virtually every country has some dirt in its history. Should no one be proud to be German simply because of some asshole's megalomania? Should Italians disavow their heritage because The Romans ran over damn near everything on the European continent in their quest to build the greatest empire the world had ever seen? Liberians and Nicaraguans have dealt with their fair share of genocide, but should they somehow disavow their roots because of it? Name one country that hasn't totally screwed someone over in the course of its history and I'll show you a country that doesn't exist.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.