Where does Leon Rank all time at WW. Top 5?

Based on stats and resume at the time of their reigns the undeniable ranking should be;

Gsp > Hughes > Usman > Woodley

5th spot would probably be Leon, Lawler is not far behind him though and is a much bigger fan favorite.

People really sleep on how good Hughes was and how much of an impact he had on the WW division before GSP came along.
 
Siver! said:
WTF...

1) GSP
2) Hughes
3) Usman
4) Woodley
5) Lawler/Leon

Hughes at 5 lmao
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1) GSP
2) Hughes
3) Woodley
4) Usman
5) Lawler/Leon

Yes Usman beat Woodley but Woodley beating Robbie, WB, Maia, and Till WHEN HE DID is more impressive than Usman beating Masdival twice, Colby twice and Burns WHEN HE DID.

IMHO.

I'm still pissed at Burns for the Usman fight. He kicks Usman in the head, visibly hurts Usman and instead of trying to finish the job with strikes or attempt to takedown Usman he decides to flop on his back and invite Usman into his guard. Usman of course doesn't do this and gets time to recover because the ref has to tell Burns to get back on his feet. Low ass fight IQ. Usman then recovers and knocks Burns out in the next round.
 
Bend NvR Break said:
1) GSP
2) Hughes
3) Woodley
4) Usman
5) Lawler/Leon

Yes Usman beat Woodley but Woodley beating Robbie, WB, Maia, and Till WHEN HE DID is more impressive than Usman beating Masdival twice, Colby twice and Burns WHEN HE DID.

IMHO.

I'm still pissed at Burns for the Usman fight. He kicks Usman in the head, visibly hurts Usman and instead of trying to finish the job with strikes or attempt to takedown Usman he decides to flop on his back and invite Usman into his guard. Usman of course doesn't do this and gets time to recover because the ref has to tell Burns to get back on his feet. Low ass fight IQ.
Click to expand...

I'm okay with it.

I think their records are fairly comparable myself, but Usman didn't suffer any defeats close to his prime. That's the reason I give him the nod.

Usman's back catalogue also includes wins over Sean Strickland and, like Woodley, Demian Maia. Even his win over RDA has aged well. I don't think Usman was ever losing to guys like Marquardt or Shields, but I do concede his title run is actually flimsy. I blame an over-manicured opponent selection from his side, and also the UFC for allowing pointless rematches.
 
Veiled anti-GSP thread.
Bend NvR Break said:
1) GSP
2) Hughes
3) Woodley
4) Usman
5) Lawler/Leon

Yes Usman beat Woodley but Woodley beating Robbie, WB, Maia, and Till WHEN HE DID is more impressive than Usman beating Masdival twice, Colby twice and Burns WHEN HE DID.

IMHO.

I'm still pissed at Burns for the Usman fight. He kicks Usman in the head, visibly hurts Usman and instead of trying to finish the job with strikes or attempt to takedown Usman he decides to flop on his back and invite Usman into his guard. Usman of course doesn't do this and gets time to recover because the ref has to tell Burns to get back on his feet. Low ass fight IQ. Usman then recovers and knocks Burns out in the next round.
Click to expand...
Looks good to me, though you could swap Woodley and Usman. Usman had one more title defense but fought two guys (Colby and Masvidal) twice. Not sure that Mas even deserved one title shot. OTH, Woodley beat Wondeboy twice, but one was a draw and both were pretty inactive fights for both guys. And he fought an old Maia. It's hard to judge between those two. Certainly good fighters in their primes but not the best title defenses.
 
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@Siver!

I'm okay with it.



I think their records are fairly comparable myself, but Usman didn't suffer any defeats close to his prime. That's the reason I give him the nod.



Usman's back catalogue also includes wins over Sean Strickland and, like Woodley, Demian Maia. Even his win over RDA has aged well. I don't think Usman was ever losing to guys like Marquardt or Shields, but I do concede his title run is actually flimsy. I blame an over-manicured opponent selection from his side, and also the UFC for allowing pointless rematches.



Gotta give Woodley his flowers.



He beat Paul Daley in his 9th MMA fight.



Jake Shields is a top 5 WW in MMA history. Not that UFC. All of MMA. The Shields that Woodley fought would beat prime Usman. The only reason Shields wasn't a long reigning UFC champ was because GSP was ruling the division. Woodley went 19 of 19 defending Jake's TD and he lost a SD.



The roided to the gills Nate Marquardt I would also pick over Usman. This is a guy not to many fights removed from people thinking he could beat Anderson Silva.



DHK was 19-2-1, had only lost to prime Maia and Condit plus was banging on a title shot's for before Woodley knocked him out. He then went 3-1 in his next 4 fights and retired.



If we are going to give Usman credit for beating an aging Maia then we have to hunt Woodley credit for beating Koscheck when he did.



I can't see Usman beating the Gas that Woodley did. This is the same Gas that would go on to almost become MW IC champ.



Condit? Do I really have to explain Carlos Condit?



He was going to fight Hendricks but Hendricks pulled out.



I think the main difference in Usman's and Woodley's come up is that Woodley fought top guys BEFORE fighting for a title. There's no reason that Colby and Usman didn't fight each other before it was for a title except that the UFC wanted them to fight each other for a title.

Usman beats wins are in during his title reign which isn't good. His best win before his title run was RDA, who never should've completed at WW, Leon, a WW strictland, grampa Maia and Wardley Alves.
 
Bowel-forged Stool said:
Lawler is much much higher than Leon.

Leon ranks more around the… I dunno, Darren till level?
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I'd rank him above Till (obviously you aren't being serious), but if they had a point fight like Till and Wonderboy ....Till probably has like a 50% chance of winning. Even at MW he had his moments (beat Gastelum, close fight with Whittaker, did quite well against DDP until he didn't in the last round).

Put another way, the best versions of Till and Edwards against each other is a toss-up if Till doesn't have a terrible weight cut. Maybe Edwards could win via wrestling but who knows. Till stuffed a couple of Woodley's TDs before he got flatlined.
 
Bend NvR Break said:
@Siver!

I'm okay with it.



I think their records are fairly comparable myself, but Usman didn't suffer any defeats close to his prime. That's the reason I give him the nod.



Usman's back catalogue also includes wins over Sean Strickland and, like Woodley, Demian Maia. Even his win over RDA has aged well. I don't think Usman was ever losing to guys like Marquardt or Shields, but I do concede his title run is actually flimsy. I blame an over-manicured opponent selection from his side, and also the UFC for allowing pointless rematches.



Gotta give Woodley his flowers.



He beat Paul Daley in his 9th MMA fight.



Jake Shields is a top 5 WW in MMA history. Not that UFC. All of MMA. The Shields that Woodley fought would beat prime Usman. The only reason Shields wasn't a long reigning UFC champ was because GSP was ruling the division. Woodley went 19 of 19 defending Jake's TD and he lost a SD.



The roided to the gills Nate Marquardt I would also pick over Usman. This is a guy not to many fights removed from people thinking he could beat Anderson Silva.



DHK was 19-2-1, had only lost to prime Maia and Condit plus was banging on a title shot's for before Woodley knocked him out. He then went 3-1 in his next 4 fights and retired.



If we are going to give Usman credit for beating an aging Maia then we have to hunt Woodley credit for beating Koscheck when he did.



I can't see Usman beating the Gas that Woodley did. This is the same Gas that would go on to almost become MW IC champ.



Condit? Do I really have to explain Carlos Condit?



He was going to fight Hendricks but Hendricks pulled out.



I think the main difference in Usman's and Woodley's come up is that Woodley fought top guys BEFORE fighting for a title. There's no reason that Colby and Usman didn't fight each other before it was for a title except that the UFC wanted them to fight each other for a title.

Usman beats wins are in during his title reign which isn't good. His best win before his title run was RDA, who never should've completed at WW, Leon, a WW strictland, grampa Maia and Wardley Alves.
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That formatted weirdly!

I like your arguments.

I don't think Shields is breaking into that top 5, but I do have a genuine appreciation of his ability. I think he's a top 10 guy in the all time, but that's completely up for debate. He's got some really impressive wins.
 
Bend NvR Break said:
@Siver!


Condit? Do I really have to explain Carlos Condit?



He was going to fight Hendricks but Hendricks pulled out.
Click to expand...
Not sure when that was but Hendricks beat Condit via UD in a WW title eliminator. I remember that fight.
 
Siver! said:
That formatted weirdly!

I like your arguments.

I don't think Shields is breaking into that top 5, but I do have a genuine appreciation of his ability. I think he's a top 10 guy in the all time, but that's completely up for debate. He's got some really impressive wins.
Click to expand...
I agree about Shields. However, I'm not sure about him being prime Usman. I guess it depends which Usman that is. Early Usman was a dominant wrestler but not a great striker from what I remember. Later Usman was a better striker. He was never technically great--more like a bigger Colby with KO power...but like Colby he had a great chin and quite a bit of output. Against Shields, I think Usman would keep it standing like Woodley. But unlike Woodley, Usman wouldn't just stand there and let Jake win with pitter patter punches and light leg kicks. I think Usman wins a decision in a pretty ugly and non-technical striking fight.
 
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