When/If Democrats regain power, should they resort to the same tactics as the Republicans have?

[LangfordBarrow]

Even assuming I thought that the likeliest outcome. Would have to play Porter at +140

I tend to bet on the better odds myself but do you really think Porter wins this one?

 

[SBJJ]

I tend to bet on the better odds myself but do you really think Porter wins this one?

I think it’s at least 50/50

 

[Trotsky]

Never change. You serve as a wonderful warning to anyone with half a brain.

You thought one of his threads might be valid? He’s a fool or troll, and I keep going back and forth on which I think it is.

I legitimately believe the guy is suffering from mental illness. There’s more than a little of that going on around these parts.

Awww, you got your feelings hurt because you got slapped down for coming into a thread to only throw insults and run away from substantive thought. And now you're spinning out with more insults and comforting yourself in the warm bosom of @lfd0311, one of the forum's most sterling intellects to be sure. Might as well join a book club with Palis to really exorcise those demons and stimulate the old noggin.

@Fawlty @Jack V Savage This is your decently intelligent right-winger? I see a spastic and childish dolt who couldn't handle the OP (or somehow even muster a coherent deflection), and is now belly aching about it five pages later.

 

[Fawlty]

Ain't no drama like War Room drama.

I like both of you, don't kill each other.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I think it’s at least 50/50

Mmm, dunno, it should be a good fight regardless.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I think Porter has better stamina than Garcia. I don't see Garcia getting a second wind and winning the fight late.

He won't wear him down or outpunch him but I think he'll win the rounds by landing better punches. My neighbor is inviting me to go but I have to work!

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Im an atheist and could care less. You not confident in your own beliefs?

What are you talking about? It seemed you misconstrued his original post and now you're impugning his beliefs.

 

[irish_thug]

Subthug came in here Weapon Status Red/Con 1, round chambered and at the high ready

he's not playing today haha

Terminated with extreme prejudice

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

If they want to win then yes, obviously.

You dont win any competition by holding back.

 

[Sketch]

This is a topic that is particularly relevant to middle-of-the-roaders like @Fawlty.

In the mid-1990s, Newt Gingrich came upon the realization that an opposition party would electorally benefit from mindless partisan obstruction, no matter how unprincipled or destructive. By fighting tooth and nail, even against policies they might otherwise support, and rendering government ineffective, they would benefit electorally.

This became standard GOP strategy during the Obama presidency, as the GOP controlled Congress, but the strategy against good faith governance, bipartisan cooperation, and adherence to longstanding precedent on transparency and political responsibility has carried over into the Republicans' current in-power status. This can be best seen in their blatant hypocrisy and refusal to engage in good faith governance on the issues of healthcare and judicial nominations.


During debate on the ACA, Republicans loudly decried the lack of transparency and the lack of bipartisan compromise, despite hundreds of hours of debate and GOP amendments. Then, when trying to pass their own bill (which was universally panned by consumer groups), they actually engaged in the tactics of which they accused the Dems.

Similarly, McConnell and friends bitched and moaned about Kagan and Sotomayor being pushed through, despite the very thorough vetting and disclosure of the nominees, and are now pushing through their nominee in an unprecedented way.

So, when and if Democrats regain power, should we once again ask that they return to the standards of good faith bipartisan governance? If history tells us anything, there is a good chance that the Republicans will continue to obstruct and then, when the GOP regains power, they will resort to the same dirty tricks - and our country will have been made worse for it.

Or should Democrats return the favor and cede the moral high ground to aggressively reverse the insidious and destructive policies pushed by the GOP, and risk an inescapable cycle of unaccountable partisan governance?

Too obvious.

 

[VivaRevolution]

This is a topic that is particularly relevant to middle-of-the-roaders like @Fawlty.

In the mid-1990s, Newt Gingrich came upon the realization that an opposition party would electorally benefit from mindless partisan obstruction, no matter how unprincipled or destructive. By fighting tooth and nail, even against policies they might otherwise support, and rendering government ineffective, they would benefit electorally.

This became standard GOP strategy during the Obama presidency, as the GOP controlled Congress, but the strategy against good faith governance, bipartisan cooperation, and adherence to longstanding precedent on transparency and political responsibility has carried over into the Republicans' current in-power status. This can be best seen in their blatant hypocrisy and refusal to engage in good faith governance on the issues of healthcare and judicial nominations.


During debate on the ACA, Republicans loudly decried the lack of transparency and the lack of bipartisan compromise, despite hundreds of hours of debate and GOP amendments. Then, when trying to pass their own bill (which was universally panned by consumer groups), they actually engaged in the tactics of which they accused the Dems.

Similarly, McConnell and friends bitched and moaned about Kagan and Sotomayor being pushed through, despite the very thorough vetting and disclosure of the nominees, and are now pushing through their nominee in an unprecedented way.

So, when and if Democrats regain power, should we once again ask that they return to the standards of good faith bipartisan governance? If history tells us anything, there is a good chance that the Republicans will continue to obstruct and then, when the GOP regains power, they will resort to the same dirty tricks - and our country will have been made worse for it.

Or should Democrats return the favor and cede the moral high ground to aggressively reverse the insidious and destructive policies pushed by the GOP, and risk an inescapable cycle of unaccountable partisan governance?

New, new deal or bust.

 

[sub_thug]

Awww, you got your feelings hurt because you got slapped down for coming into a thread to only throw insults and run away from substantive thought. And now you're spinning out with more insults and comforting yourself in the warm bosom of @lfd0311, one of the forum's most sterling intellects to be sure. Might as well join a book club with Palis to really exorcise those demons and stimulate the old noggin.

@Fawlty @Jack V Savage This is your decently intelligent right-winger? I see a spastic and childish dolt who couldn't handle the OP (or somehow even muster a coherent deflection), and is now belly aching about it five pages later.

As can be seen in this thread, I am perfectly willing to engage someone across the aisle when I think they’re willing to engage in good faith. You continuously demonstrate bad faith, so why waste the time. You’re just a bad person, plain and simple, proven again and again by your nonsensical dribble and eagerness for conflict, failing to show anyone any respect whatsoever unless they are someone you view as political allies. If you expect me to treat a POS like that with respect, then you’re simply off base. I don’t pretend to be Mother Theresa.

 

[AlexDB9]

As can be seen in this thread, I am perfectly willing to engage someone across the aisle when I think they’re willing to engage in good faith. You continuously demonstrate bad faith, so why waste the time. You’re just a bad person, plain and simple, proven again and again by your nonsensical dribble and eagerness for conflict, failing to show anyone any respect whatsoever unless they are someone you view as political allies. If you expect me to treat a POS like that with respect, then you’re simply off base. I don’t pretend to be Mother Theresa.

But but it’s so edgy and cool to have a communist as your av and act all intellectual here, look at all the likes he gets!

 

[spamking]

This is a topic that is particularly relevant to middle-of-the-roaders like @Fawlty.

In the mid-1990s, Newt Gingrich came upon the realization that an opposition party would electorally benefit from mindless partisan obstruction, no matter how unprincipled or destructive. By fighting tooth and nail, even against policies they might otherwise support, and rendering government ineffective, they would benefit electorally.

This became standard GOP strategy during the Obama presidency, as the GOP controlled Congress, but the strategy against good faith governance, bipartisan cooperation, and adherence to longstanding precedent on transparency and political responsibility has carried over into the Republicans' current in-power status. This can be best seen in their blatant hypocrisy and refusal to engage in good faith governance on the issues of healthcare and judicial nominations.


During debate on the ACA, Republicans loudly decried the lack of transparency and the lack of bipartisan compromise, despite hundreds of hours of debate and GOP amendments. Then, when trying to pass their own bill (which was universally panned by consumer groups), they actually engaged in the tactics of which they accused the Dems.

Similarly, McConnell and friends bitched and moaned about Kagan and Sotomayor being pushed through, despite the very thorough vetting and disclosure of the nominees, and are now pushing through their nominee in an unprecedented way.

So, when and if Democrats regain power, should we once again ask that they return to the standards of good faith bipartisan governance? If history tells us anything, there is a good chance that the Republicans will continue to obstruct and then, when the GOP regains power, they will resort to the same dirty tricks - and our country will have been made worse for it.

Or should Democrats return the favor and cede the moral high ground to aggressively reverse the insidious and destructive policies pushed by the GOP, and risk an inescapable cycle of unaccountable partisan governance?

I've worked for the Federal government since 1995 . . . had to deal with the Clinton, GWB, Obama and now Trump administrations. The absolute worst morale I have ever experienced occurred during the tail end of the Obama presidency and now through the first half of the Trump presidency. I've seen all of the grandstanding. I've seen all of the misdirection. Both the democrats and republicans are guilty of doing these things. We've got senators berating department and Opdiv directors over issues that are 100% preventable, but without proper funding and manpower many times can't be avoided.

Frankly, I don't care who has the majority as long as they act like adults and are truthful with their positions. Stop with the hyperbole. Stop with the absolute dishonesty. I don't care if your name is Gingrich, Booker, Harris or Rand . . . stop using your time in front of the camera as a commercial for your campaign when you're supposed to be governing.

 

[sub_thug]

Ain't no drama like War Room drama.

I like both of you, don't kill each other.

I’m the easiest guy to figure out in the world: If I think you’re acting in good faith and willing to show mutual respect, we can get along. The moment I think you’re trying to pull a fast one or start assuming that everyone who doesn’t agree with you has secret evil motives, I’m willing to fling the gloves off and slug. That’s exactly why I’ve generally enjoyed our exchanges in the past, despite our ideological differences. I don’t assume from the outset that what you’re saying is part of a strategy to win or that you’re saying things just to stick it to the other guy. You’re trying to argue from your own perspective based on how you see the world, and you’re willing to hear an opposing viewpoint. We aren’t even asking to change one another’s minds, but to consider that an opposing view might have legitimate concerns with what we might each put forth as policy options. That way, when your guys are in power, they don’t completely trample and belittle me. When my guys are in power, they don’t trample and belittle you.

Kind of tying it back to the original topic, there’s something very bad going on right now in politics. It’s more obvious, and perhaps prevalent, from the conservatives because they’re in power, but it exists to some degree on both sides: There exists this thing where conservatives today want not only to enact conservative policies, but also to “make libtards cry.” That’s super fucking stupid. We saw this same thing from liberals to a smaller degree during the Obama Administration, but let’s call it for what it is: President Trump lives for this stuff. It’s his wheelhouse. It needs to end. Reasonable people should be able to treat others with respect. Unreasonable people will get what they get, hence what happened here.

 

[KeepItRealist]

Every good thing that happened during Bill Clinton's presidency was due to the GOP Congress forcing him to sign the bills. He takes credit now for things they practically had to put a gun to his head and override his vetoes to pass.

 

[7437]

If they want to win then yes, obviously.

You dont win any competition by holding back.

That has actually beena real problem for the democrats. Many want to be seen as the good guys more than they want to win.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

That has actually beena real problem for the democrats. Many want to be seen as the good guys more than they want to win.

But what good does that do if they're not winning. The gop has a very unpopular agenda yet they're winning so they can do what ever they want.

 

[7437]

But what good does that do if they're not winning. The gop has a very unpopular agenda yet they're winning so they can do what ever they want.

I am agreeing with you

 

[Fawlty]

That has actually beena real problem for the democrats. Many want to be seen as the good guys more than they want to win.

I know we're all supposed to be cynical and whatnot, but maybe it's the case that Democrats actually are the good guys, relatively speaking, instead of just wanting to be seen as good.