What's your opinion on IBJJF's no knee reaping rule

[Uchi Mata]

The whole "Leg locks are more effective with reaping" doesn't make sense to me. It probably helps the straight foot lock (not as much as people make it out to be) and ofcourse the heel hook (wich is illegal in gi anyway).

What doesn't make sense to you? Leg locking without reaping is like arm barring without putting both legs over the body. You can do it, sometimes it makes sense, but you lose a lot of control and it's much easier for your opponent to escape.

 

[yetanother]

Is reaping useful for anything other than ankle locks and heel hooks.
I have seen Yuri try to abuse reaping to do some weird pseudo heel hook at Metamoris to Keenan.
I have seen very little reaping ankle lock in ADCC as people just seem to heel hook.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Is reaping useful for anything other than ankle locks and heel hooks.
I have seen Yuri try to abuse reaping to do some weird pseudo heel hook at Metamoris to Keenan.
I have seen very little reaping ankle lock in ADCC as people just seem to heel hook.

Reaping is good for heel hooks, toe holds, and straight ankle locks. So really other than kneebars and slicers, it's good for everything. The main reason reaping is handy is because it allows you to enter a control position before working on a submission. The sub you finish with isn't really all that important. It would be like asking how many submissions you can do from mount...who cares? You can cross choke and armbar, and that's enough because the positional control is so strong.

Also, you definitely see reaping heel hooks at ADCC. Palhares for one did it often.

 

[platfox]

Reaping would open up more sweeps.

 

[yetanother]

Also, you definitely see reaping heel hooks at ADCC. Palhares for one did it often.

Reaping heel hooks yes.
Reaping ankle lock I haven't seen much.
It seems a bit artificial to allow reaping without heel hooks.

 

[JustTheTip]

Reaping is good for heel hooks, toe holds, and straight ankle locks. So really other than kneebars and slicers, it's good for everything. The main reason reaping is handy is because it allows you to enter a control position before working on a submission. The sub you finish with isn't really all that important. It would be like asking how many submissions you can do from mount...who cares? You can cross choke and armbar, and that's enough because the positional control is so strong.

Also, you definitely see reaping heel hooks at ADCC. Palhares for one did it often.

This. Its like taking the back without hooks. If hooks were illegal,RNCs could and would still be finished but you would have less control and it would be much more risky to go for them.The IBJJF rules pretty much give a huge escape option to the opponent.

 

[lechien]

Is reaping useful for anything other than ankle locks and heel hooks.

.

It would be a different grappling game.

Reaping useful for sweeping.

Imagine you do a single X and then just reap the crap out of it.

Reaping useful to avoid get swept.

For example, the person double ankle lock sweep me and goes to mount to score.

I just stop him coming on top by reaping..

We could create new guard like the reaping guard.

or combination guard like half spider half reaping etc..

 

[Wanderlei Industries]

The whole "Leg locks are more effective with reaping" doesn't make sense to me. It probably helps the straight foot lock (not as much as people make it out to be) and ofcourse the heel hook (wich is illegal in gi anyway).

Try learning a proper leg lock and then come back and laugh at this post.

 

[Calibur]

Reaping heel hooks yes.
Reaping ankle lock I haven't seen much.
It seems a bit artificial to allow reaping without heel hooks.

You keep saying that.

A reap is a pin, like mount or side control. From there you can attack whatever you want.


The closed inside diamond reap (the closed outside diamond is the "50/50") is the best form of leg dominance.

If you are attacking the legs you need this control even without heel hooks.

Just because you see heel hooks done without reaps doesn't mean that that's all reaps are for.

 

[Billz]

I don't really have a strong opinion on the legality of it, but here's a question. If reaping was legal, do you think we'd see a lot less of the standing passing game that is so big now?

The first gym I trained at allowed and encouraged all leglocks plus reaping in the gi. Everyone there passed on their knees to defend the reap. Might have just been the style there, but what do you guys think?

 

[Calibur]

I don't really have a strong opinion on the legality of it, but here's a question. If reaping was legal, do you think we'd see a lot less of the standing passing game that is so big now?

The first gym I trained at allowed and encouraged all leglocks plus reaping in the gi. Everyone there passed on their knees to defend the reap. Might have just been the style there, but what do you guys think?

It would affect things a bit but probably not to much since the bull fighter negates the reap a bit.

If you like playing collar sleeve grips then definitely.

In nogi people would be reaping instead of playing delariva because there's no collar to grab and the reap is much better for breaking people's base when they stand.

 

[Billz]

It would affect things a bit but probably not to much since the bull fighter negates the reap a bit.

If you like playing collar sleeve grips then definitely.

In nogi people would be reaping instead of playing delariva because there's no collar to grab and the reap is much better for breaking people's base when they stand.

Good points. Thanks.

 

[nefti]

What doesn't make sense to you? Leg locking without reaping is like arm barring without putting both legs over the body. You can do it, sometimes it makes sense, but you lose a lot of control and it's much easier for your opponent to escape.

That it's being exaggerated when it comes to "foot locks" in nogi. Foot locks are rarely seen as finishers in ADCC compared to Heel Hooks because the HH is just a superior submission. It may help the foot lock but even with the reap it doesn't compare with the heel hook.

 

[nefti]

In nogi people would be reaping instead of playing delariva because there's no collar to grab and the reap is much better for breaking people's base when they stand.

Not really, especially in the lower weights. Look at Cobrinha/medes/ect at ADCC they all play dlr/rdr and use inversions from the bottom.

 

[Snar]

I remember Kip Kollar giving the same speech a couple times in that talk he gives competitors before a NAGA event addressing this issue.

He basically said that shoulder injuries were the most common injury in competition, and that if the competitors safety was the main concern, they should ban Kimuras and keylocks. If I remember correctly knee injuries weren't even second, I think that fell on cervical injuries from guillotines.

It makes me wonder what the rationale for the IBJJF banning reaps and heel hooks was. I mean at the time NAGA had been around for much longer, and had access to these statistics. I would imagine the IBJJF would have similar statistics. Why would they make such an arbitrary descision.

Anyways I totally agree it is a needless rule.

 

[Calibur]

Not really, especially in the lower weights. Look at Cobrinha/medes/ect at ADCC they all play dlr/rdr and use inversions from the bottom.

Because that's their only option for playing guard nogi against a standing opponent.

 

[yetanother]

Because that's their only option for playing guard nogi against a standing opponent.

I would put all my money that Cobrinha/Rafa Mendes have vastly superior leg locks to anyone complaining about heel hook rules/reaping on the internet.

 

[Calibur]

I would put all my money that Cobrinha/Rafa Mendes have vastly superior leg locks to anyone complaining about heel hook rules/reaping on the internet.

So do I. Unfortunately we don't get to see that because of the rules.

 

[yetanother]

So do I. Unfortunately we don't get to see that because of the rules.

The ADCC allows all leg locks.

 

[FatherSauce]

I don't like the rule just because of how much IBJJF rules impact everything else. If it was just them, I wouldn't care but the majority of tournaments in my area do IBJJF rules. Because most of the rules are this way, my gym trains this way. So this rule makes it where I can't really even practice this stuff without going outside my school.