What's your opinion on IBJJF's no knee reaping rule

[flikerstance]

Here's my real question about knee reaping:

Who here believes that the reaping rule is in effect not because of safety, but to tilt the rules in favor of the Gracie Barra style of BJJ?

barra isnt old school gracie they use modern techniques same as alliance and so on

 

[vcmmafan]

Reaping should be allowed if both people sparring agree to it...

 

[lechien]

A part of me feels like this is some conspiracy theory type idea, but another part of me recognizes that they do allow guard jumping, which is arguably as dangerous a technique if not more so. I wouldn't say it specifically favors Gracie Baja tho, it just represents the big focus on guard play in bjj. If close guard is your A game and jumping is allowed, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it

Guard jumping is not allowed for white belts.
Which is stupid.
It should be banned at all belts.

Now back to knee reaping,
I do not have an opinion.
I could go both ways.

My problem is coaches not teaching knee reaping to their students because they do not know the rules.

 

[yetanother]

I don't want heel hooks, risking my knees in a sport with nothing to win seems silly.
Allowing reaping without heel hooks seems strange.

 

[Calibur]

I don't want heel hooks, risking my knees in a sport with nothing to win seems silly.
Allowing reaping without heel hooks seems strange.

Saying reaping is only for heel hooks is like saying back control is only for neck cranks.

 

[Solidus Snake]

Knee reaping (and so heelhooks) should be ok for brown/black belts.. at the very least in adult category.

 

[Steveston]

I like the rule it only takes one heel hook to take you out-of action for months.

 

[NSchoke]

IBJJF obviously don't want leg lock experts or Sambo players to dominate in IBJJF tournaments. That's why they banned knee reaping.

Case in point, ADCC, dominated by.... Oh wait, the biggest open tournaments are dominated by IBJJF guys.

 

[brendan raedy]

I think the rule is a holdover from like 10 years ago when leg locks were viewed as non-technical and dirty, and people knew even less about defending leg locks and knees were getting popped en masse every weekend at GQ and NAGA.

I say allow it, but I also think you should allow heel hooks in IBJJF (gi and no gi) so that probably puts me in the minority.

 

[randomg1t]

reaping should be allowed at all levels and heel hooks everywhere from purple.

the injury argument is an invalid one, as it only takes one armbar to put someone out, too. the only difference is the heel hook takes much less strength to perform and much more skill to defend. but there are quite a few tournaments (ADCC, EBI, metamoris maybe?) that allow them and we don't see many knees blown there.

the irony of the rule is incredible, heel hooks are literally the best demonstration of leverage we have in grappling, they're pretty much the perfect submission by BJJ standards. if anything, they should be encouraged and drilled like crazy.

 

[JenStark]

Heel hooks allowed in IBJJF from brown and onwards. Kneebars, toe-holds and reaping from blue belt. This is what I would like.

 

[brendan raedy]

reaping should be allowed at all levels and heel hooks everywhere from purple.

the injury argument is an invalid one, as it only takes one armbar to put someone out, too. the only difference is the heel hook takes much less strength to perform and much more skill to defend. but there are quite a few tournaments (ADCC, EBI, metamoris maybe?) that allow them and we don't see many knees blown there.

the irony of the rule is incredible, heel hooks are literally the best demonstration of leverage we have in grappling, they're pretty much the perfect submission by BJJ standards. if anything, they should be encouraged and drilled like crazy.

The vast majority of people competing at ADCC, EBI, and Metamoris are black belts, with the rest browns and VERY few purples. And those purples are top of the line that would be brown at most other schools. You start letting run of the mill, casual purple belts heel hook and you will see LOTS of blown knees.

People can laugh off or tap at a GQ or NAGA, but when you are at an IBJJF event people are going to push their limits and that is where injuries occur.

 

[brendan raedy]

Heel hooks allowed in IBJJF from brown and onwards. Kneebars, toe-holds and reaping from blue belt. This is what I would like.

I agree with this. I think prohibiting reaping is really inhibiting the leg lock growth of BJJ players. Reap for a footlock at purple can be easily turned into a reap to heel hook at brown, but its tough to start reaping out of nowhere.

 

[Drew Foster]

Reaping is no more dangerous than Kimuras.

But Kimuras are VERY dangerous.

I actually get more scared when I know someone has a finishable kimura than a finishable heel hook.

 

[Calibur]

I agree with this. I think prohibiting reaping is really inhibiting the leg lock growth of BJJ players. Reap for a footlock at purple can be easily turned into a reap to heel hook at brown, but its tough to start reaping out of nowhere.

Exactly.

Learning how to use proper leg control at brown belt is almost like learning to use guard at brown belt. There's just too much to it.

People treat kneebars as if it's just a an armbar on the leg, when it's actually a complicated system of leg control that no one has practiced.

At brown belt your Jiu Jitsu game is pretty much cemented. Imagine if you were only allowed to learn a foreign language once you were an adult? Very few people would become fluent and those who did would've had to put in a lot of work to catch up.

Learn how the reap works from the beginning and you will prevent a lot of injuries just like learning how to breakfalls will keep you from getting hurt when you're thrown.

Don't be that high level guy who discourages people from learning something that's fundamental to grappling just because you waited too late to be efficient at it.

 

[yetanother]

Saying reaping is only for heel hooks is like saying back control is only for neck cranks.

I haven't seen them used for much else when heel hooks are legal.

 

[Calibur]

I haven't seen them used for much else when heel hooks are legal.

Heel hooks are efficient. If heel hooks are legal that's the first thing you go for when you reap.

That doesn't mean that the reap isn't the best way to control the legs for straight foot locks. Remember, heel hooks have always been banned at the lower level but it's only within the last decade that reaps were seen as a sign of the apocalypse.

They were used for non heel hook attacks in the gi for years.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Reaping is no more dangerous than Kimuras.

But Kimuras are VERY dangerous.

Competitive submission grappling is dangerous. The whole point is to come really, really close to seriously injuring someone, though obviously we all try to avoid that. I don't think knee reaping is any more dangerous than kimuras or really any joint lock, but of course I also think that for brown and black belts all subs should be legal. There's no reason a brown belt shouldn't be able to defend a heel hook or at least recognize it quickly enough to tap out, to say nothing of black belts.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I haven't seen them used for much else when heel hooks are legal.

Reaping as part of leg entanglements is by far the best way to set up both straight ankle locks and toe holds from the top.

 

[brendan raedy]

Heel hooks are efficient. If heel hooks are legal that's the first thing you go for when you reap.

That doesn't mean that the reap isn't the best way to control the legs for straight foot locks. Remember, heel hooks have always been banned at the lower level but it's only within the last decade that reaps were seen as a sign of the apocalypse.

They were used for non heel hook attacks in the gi for years.

I see Sambo players reap for footlocks. As far as I know heel hooks are not allowed in sport sambo.

I see BJJ players leg lock without reaps. Often, heel hooks are not allowed in BJJ.

We often discount the footlock in BJJ, but I'm wondering how much of that is because we are unable to reap when they are used, and when we can heel hook we often bypass the footlock.

The heel hook to me seems more powerful in general, but how much of that is because BJJ generally does not have the sophisticated leg work/knotting/reaping of Sambo, or finely developed straight footlock attacks?

Really curious to see where this all converges.