whats the point of interval training for fighting?

[peanut butter]

let me just start by saying i have no real knowledge about anything relating to conditioning.

my question is why would you do interval training for better fight conditioning. i know it can help fat loss and help tolerance to lactic acid production. but even if it does simulate a fighting environment with 3min rounds, 1 rest, isnt your recovery and recuperation for the next round dependant on how efficient your aerobic system is? therefore would sustained aerobic training be better for fight conditioning? can anyone fill me in, thanks

 

[Brad Morris]

"sustained aerobic training" is good and should be part of an overall program. But a fight is not at the same "sustained or constant" level of intencity, like a long run is at a constant pace.

Interval training especially High Intenciity Interval Training (H.I.I.T.) challenges the body and there is a great variance in intencity levels in a relatively short period of time. I believe this closely mimics the environment that a fighter finds himself in, ever changing levels of intensity for 3 or 5 minute rounds.

Thats why I believe its important to do both types of cardiovascular conditioning (Long Slow Distance and H.I.I.T) in preparation for a fight, as well as sparring which is the most sports specific cardio conditioning I think you can do.

 

[Ian Coe]

Also, by doing HIIT your pushing your body beyond the normal range of the aerobic system (ie your pushing into the anaerboic for a short amount of time), so when you take the resting period, any work that you do is beneficial to your aerobic system.

Does that make sense, it does to me but I'm trying to convery what I mean

 

[Ian Coe]

Also, by doing HIIT your pushing your body beyond the normal range of the aerobic system (ie your pushing into the anaerboic for a short amount of time), so when you take the resting period, any work that you do is beneficial to your aerobic system.

Does that make sense, it does to me but I'm trying to convery what I mean

 

[Carlson]

I don't think thats the only benefit.

After doing interval training on an elliptical machine for about a month and a half now I find it hard to get my heart rate up to my cardio heart rate. I have to work much harder and longer to get it up there. This basically works out for me that I don't even get winded at all during my 15 min cardio warm up to the intervals, when I would be breathing hard after 5 minutes before.

And this doesn't just work on the elliptical machine. I work at FedEx loading boxes onto trucks and I've found I have much more endurance then when I started out.

So I'd say one definite benefit is increased endurance.

 

[Carlson]

Also I do 5 mins warm up, 10 mins cardio heart rate, about 10 mins intervals, and another 10 mins cardio heart rate.

So I'm getting both a long distance cardio workout and just inserting the interval training in the middle. Plus I'm never totally resting. I'm recovering actively at the same pace as my cardio portions, then spring into full effort over the duration of the interval, then back down to cardio rate.

 

[LCDforMe]

Interval training also creates an envirement similar to that of a fight. You don't fight at a slow steady pace for 3x5 min rounds, you do shorts bursts of energy followed by shorts periods of rest. This is like HIIT. It's good for the cardio.

 

[physicaltherapy]

Here's what my CSCS Essentials of Strength training and Conditioning symposium book says:
Increased VO2 max, increased cardiac output (increased ability to shuttle O2 to the muscles), psychological effect - you can "handle the pain" of competition. Plus improve lactate hershold.

You're basically trying to mimic the combat environment. Train your glycolytic system (lactic acid system as opposed to aerobic system) and improve metabolic efficiency.

 

[physicaltherapy]

Also, by doing HIIT your pushing your body beyond the normal range of the aerobic system (ie your pushing into the anaerboic for a short amount of time), so when you take the resting period, any work that you do is beneficial to your aerobic system.

Does that make sense, it does to me but I'm trying to convery what I mean

I think its mostly anerobic for the entire time, esp if you're working close to max VO2

 

[peanut butter]

Interval training also creates an envirement similar to that of a fight. You don't fight at a slow steady pace for 3x5 min rounds, you do shorts bursts of energy followed by shorts periods of rest. This is like HIIT. It's good for the cardio.

you could same for low rep strength training, in that you dont exert maximal force once or twice a fight. but the effect of getting stronger (absolute strength) transfers to both your endurance (because it feels easier) and your ability to produce maximal force when required. therefore even though a slow steady pace might not simulate a fighting environment, it still best trains your aerobic capabilities, which are a huge factor in a fight, when it comes to endurance and recovering both during the fight or in the interval.

 

[peanut butter]

Here's what my CSCS Essentials of Strength training and Conditioning symposium book says:
Increased VO2 max, increased cardiac output (increased ability to shuttle O2 to the muscles), psychological effect - you can "handle the pain" of competition. Plus improve lactate hershold.

You're basically trying to mimic the combat environment. Train your glycolytic system (lactic acid system as opposed to aerobic system) and improve metabolic efficiency.

i see that it does improve VO2 max and cardiac output, but isnt aerobic based conditioning the best for improving that. mental strength is very important in a fight, but cant mental toughness come from sparring anyway.

 

[aries]

Another reason why HIIT is more effect IMO than long aerobic training is that you simply don't have enough time to devote to cardio training as well as your skills training and strength training. HIIT gets more done in a shorter time.

Also having they type of endurance built up from steady state slow cardio training is pretty useless in a fight because you never fight at that pace. If you were just to plod around the ring for 20 minutes you'd get hammered by anyone with a pulse.

The longer you fight the more the emphasis shifts to aerobic end of the energy spectrum. You can see this with pro boxers training for 12 rounder championship belts. They start doing longer training runs and have to learn to pace themselves for longer than a person starting out at the 4 round or 6 round level.

Another reason that I don't think has been empthasised is that HIIT is great for improving recovery from intense bursts of activity such that you'd typical get in a fight.

Having a high VO2 max will help by allowing you to fight at a faster pace without incurring oxygen debt but you can't limit yourself to fighting at that pace in a bout nor will your opponent let you. Unlike a long distance road race where you could run at just below your VO2 max to ensure you didn't incure that oxygen debt. Also VO2 max potential could be reached in a couple of years of good training.

 

[Ian Coe]

I think its mostly anerobic for the entire time, esp if you're working close to max VO2

I may be interpreting this wrongly, but those bursts alone are anaerobic, the recovery parts are aerobic. You can't run at 100% anaerobic without the % of aerobic becoming around 100% after 3 minutes (ie you get slower and slower as you reach aerobic capacity). Therefore that means that the bursts that your sprinting are the anaerobic part, but when your jogging to recover, thats where the aerobic system comes into play while the anaerobic system recovers (and flushes out the lactate that has been produced). Compare a 800m sprint with a 1600m run. In the 800m sprint the legs burn to buggary and you breath extremely hard, why, because your body has built up a large amount of lactate in the legs (burning sensation) and its using the aerobic system to flush out the toxins (hence the increase in 02 comsumption-oxygen debt as mentiioned above). The run doesn't dig into the anaerobic system as hard, which is why you don't feel so fatiqued as dead at the end

 

[physicaltherapy]

I may be interpreting this wrongly, but those bursts alone are anaerobic, the recovery parts are aerobic. You can't run at 100% anaerobic without the % of aerobic becoming around 100% after 3 minutes (ie you get slower and slower as you reach aerobic capacity). Therefore that means that the bursts that your sprinting are the anaerobic part, but when your jogging to recover, thats where the aerobic system comes into play while the anaerobic system recovers (and flushes out the lactate that has been produced). Compare a 800m sprint with a 1600m run. In the 800m sprint the legs burn to buggary and you breath extremely hard, why, because your body has built up a large amount of lactate in the legs (burning sensation) and its using the aerobic system to flush out the toxins (hence the increase in 02 comsumption-oxygen debt as mentiioned above). The run doesn't dig into the anaerobic system as hard, which is why you don't feel so fatiqued as dead at the end

Like I said it depends on how hard your're working. If you're around 70% VO2 max (a cheesy/nonaccurate/nonscientific way to guage to measure is the talk test, work hard enough so that you're still able to talk) then yeah it's mostly aerobic. Past 70% VO2 you're dipping into your anerobic system. ATP-CP cycle lasts about 30 seconds. Then the Glycolytic system kicks in. After 3 minutes of high intensity exercise, you're still using you're glycolytic system, it deosn't shut down. You just feel the burn more and more till you can't work anymore. Some athletes can continue at or above lactate thresholds for 30-60 minutes.

When you get the 2 minute break, that's recovery time baby!!!

That 1600m run (We call that a mile here in the US. My high school science teacher said that we're gonna switch to metric soon, it's like the next big thing. That was 9 years ago.) you will be using your lactic acid/glycolytic system if you're running your ass off vs your areobic system. In long distance races like the marathon. After you use up your glycogen stores (many hours of racing), you "hit the wall" where you feel like complete ass and your intensity goes down because you are relying mostly on your fat oxidation for energy.

 

[physicaltherapy]

I guess in a fight, it depends on how relaxed or intense you are. If you're just sitting in the guy's guard taking a break. Then yeah it's oxidative and you're getting some recovery from lactic acid. It definitely fluctuates. With HIIT you're definitely preparing for the worst. You wanna prepare your body to work to the highest intensity for the entire duration of the 5 minutes in each round.

 

[physicaltherapy]

i see that it does improve VO2 max and cardiac output, but isnt aerobic based conditioning the best for improving that. mental strength is very important in a fight, but cant mental toughness come from sparring anyway.

Yeah mental toughness can come from sparring.....but you have to spar like you would fight. No lazy rolling.

 

[Q mystic]

Like I said it depends on how hard your're working. If you're around 70% VO2 max (a cheesy/nonaccurate/nonscientific way to guage to measure is the talk test, work hard enough so that you're still able to talk) then yeah it's mostly aerobic. Past 70% VO2 you're dipping into your anerobic system. ATP-CP cycle lasts about 30 seconds. Then the Glycolytic system kicks in. After 3 minutes of high intensity exercise, you're still using you're glycolytic system, it deosn't shut down. You just feel the burn more and more till you can't work anymore. Some athletes can continue at or above lactate thresholds for 30-60 minutes.

When you get the 2 minute break, that's recovery time baby!!!

That 1600m run (We call that a mile here in the US. My high school science teacher said that we're gonna switch to metric soon, it's like the next big thing. That was 9 years ago.) you will be using your lactic acid/glycolytic system if you're running your ass off vs your areobic system. In long distance races like the marathon. After you use up your glycogen stores (many hours of racing), you "hit the wall" where you feel like complete ass and your intensity goes down because you are relying mostly on your fat oxidation for energy.

So if I 'jog' at 90-100 percent hr (185bpm) for 35 minutes, that is only training my anaerobic? Because it isn't running. I am jogging at close to max hr for a while but it sure don't feel anaerobic (like sprints).

 

[the headhunter]

doesn't it also help the body burn fat and retain muscle better than sustained aerobic training? i might be wrong... but if i'm not, then that's definitely a benefit for fighters

 

[physicaltherapy]

So if I 'jog' at 90-100 percent hr (185bpm) for 35 minutes, that is only training my anaerobic? Because it isn't running. I am jogging at close to max hr for a while but it sure don't feel anaerobic (like sprints).

Ummm yes, mostly anaerobic. You have to understand that it's a continuum. At around 65 to70% VO2 max (or 65-70% of your heart rate reserve, they are directly related for our purposes), you are about max on your fat oxidation. At this point the higher you go, you start tapping into the glycolytic system and your fat oxidation goes down, until you reach 100%HRR (or VO2 max), when its mostly (if not all) anerobic.

If you're using Karvonen's formula. You have to understand that that is a theoretical max. To get your true max you have to do a stress test.

If it deosn't feel like you're training like sprints, you're probably not at max HR. For example, my max according to the max HR formula (220-age) is 193. On an all out run (running as hard as I could) of 1.5 miles, I clocked myself at 208 bpm using a Polar. 208 is probably closer to my true max HR than 193. Again, I have to do a proper stress test to see what it is. Me runnning at 193 bpm doesn't feel as hard as running at 208 bpm.

 

[Q mystic]

Ummm yes, mostly anaerobic. You have to understand that it's a continuum. At around 65 to70% VO2 max (or 65-70% of your heart rate reserve, they are directly related for our purposes), you are about max on your fat oxidation. At this point the higher you go, you start tapping into the glycolytic system and your fat oxidation goes down, until you reach 100%HRR (or VO2 max), when its mostly (if not all) anerobic.

If you're using Karvonen's formula. You have to understand that that is a theoretical max. To get your true max you have to do a stress test.

If it deosn't feel like you're training like sprints, you're probably not at max HR. For example, my max according to the max HR formula (220-age) is 193. On an all out run (running as hard as I could) of 1.5 miles, I clocked myself at 208 bpm using a Polar. 208 is probably closer to my true max HR than 193. Again, I have to do a proper stress test to see what it is. Me runnning at 193 bpm doesn't feel as hard as running at 208 bpm.

Ok. So my max hr formula = 188. I jog on the treadmill for 40 min and my hr from 10-40min is about 170. But my true hr would prolly be higher (202 maybe) so I am still prolly just jogging in my aerobic zone? Thanks.

I am trying to build my aerobic base right now.