Social What positives have muslims brought to the West?

[ElKarlo]

@Fronk don't worry, he doesn't realize the reason for the disappearance of Greek speakers was a direct result if the Arab invasions. The eastern Romans were also under constant attack, and no longer produced any new works of note post Islamic invasions.
The Arabs did manage to enslave so many Africans and treat them so poorly that they had a massive slave rebellion within 100 years of controlling Iraq. Zanj rebellion. Yay religion of peace.
It's also interesting that as soon as the areas under Muslim control didn't produce much in the way of science post Mongol invasions. Yet that excuse doesn't work for the west. but but the mongols and out golden age. Yet massive Germanic, hunnic , berber, Alan and viking doesn't count when dealing with the education levels in the west.

 

[El Panteron]

@Fronk don't worry, he doesn't realize the reason for the disappearance of Greek speakers was a direct result if the Arab invasions. The eastern Romans were also under constant attack, and no longer produced any new works of note post Islamic invasions.
The Arabs did manage to enslave so many Africans and treat them so poorly that they had a massive slave rebellion within 100 years of controlling Iraq. Zanj rebellion. Yay religion of peace.
It's also interesting that as soon as the areas under Muslim control didn't produce much in the way of science post Mongol invasions. Yet that excuse doesn't work for the west. but but the mongols and out golden age. Yet massive Germanic, hunnic , berber, Alan and viking doesn't count when dealing with the education levels in the west.

You keep confusing a culture (Arabs) with their religion (Islam).
Think ffs

 

[Starman]

That is a dumb question. It if was preserved in Arabic then it got translated into Greek and Latin.

Your opinion on the intelligence of the question is based solely on the fact that you failed to understand it.

My argument was that the overwhelming majority of Greek works that we have today survived in their original Greek form. The number of Arabic translations we have of those original Greek works are so small that, when rounded to the nearest whole number, is zero.

Do you know what "original form" means or not? The overwhelming majority of Greek works that have survived into the present day were not works that were translated into Arabic, and then back into Greek. They are the original forms, preserved by the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, and the Eastern Churches.

What's your source for this misinformation?

What is my source for this? The text themselves. I asked you before, and I will ask again, how many Greek works do we have today which do not exist in their original Greek forms, but instead exist only as Arabic translations (which were later re-translated back into Greek)?

You cannot and will not provide a list, because it does not exist.

I don't know what your area of expertise is, but mine is linguistics. I majored in linguistics, and have taught language at the university level for over a decade. Though even a cursory understanding or application of forensic linguistics might help you answer the question I posed earlier, it is not necessary. A simple internet search would turn up the data if it existed.

So I'll wait for you to find that answer and get back to me. If the data exists and you provide it, you will undoubtedly prove that what I said was false, and what you claimed was right.

I hate Islam more than you, and probably know more about it than you, but I have no problems with admitting that some Muslims in the past or present has contributed to humanity in some way, either by preserving some of Aristotle's works or whatever they have done today. This is not praise for Islam but rather for the individual person who did good.

This is a non-sequitur. You and I are not discussing how much you hate Islam. You want to argue that Muslims saved Western society by preserving ancient Greek works that would have otherwise been lost. I am telling you that is a false claim, and there is no evidence to back it up. If Muslims preserved the work of ancient Greeks, then you should be able to compile a long list of all the Greek works that now exist only in Arabic translations, instead of their original Greek forms.

Again, I await your rebuttal on that point, and that point alone. You can argue everything else with someone else.

 

[Benjamin Burton]

nothing basically

whenever i see a dumb woman in a hijab in the us it makes me want to vomit

honestly how dumb can you be

 

[meauneau]

Your opinion on the intelligence of the question is based solely on the fact that you failed to understand it.

My argument was that the overwhelming majority of Greek works that we have today survived in their original Greek form. The number of Arabic translations we have of those original Greek works are so small that, when rounded to the nearest whole number, is zero.

Do you know what "original form" means or not? The overwhelming majority of Greek works that have survived into the present day were not works that were translated into Arabic, and then back into Greek. They are the original forms, preserved by the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, and the Eastern Churches.

You can repeat this all you want it is still stupid. No one claims that Arabs or Muslims preserved all or a greater part of the Greek works. The claim is that some of it, particularly Aristotle's works which is of most importance, was translated into Latin from the Arabic and contributed to it being widely available. They also further developed some of Aristotle's logic. In the end all those who work in the filed of ancient philosophy/history or ideas acknowledge that some Arabs did contribute to the collective knowledge of the time. What a linguist thinks is irrelevant.

"The transmission of the Greek Classics to Latin Western Europe during the Middle Ages was a key factor in the development of intellectual life in Western Europe." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans...translation:_Arabic_commentary_on_Greek_works

Some Arabs contributed to this.

What is my source for this? The text themselves. I asked you before, and I will ask again, how many Greek works do we have today which do not exist in their original Greek forms, but instead exist only as Arabic translations (which were later re-translated back into Greek)?

You cannot and will not provide a list, because it does not exist.

I don't know what your area of expertise is, but mine is linguistics. I majored in linguistics, and have taught language at the university level for over a decade. Though even a cursory understanding or application of forensic linguistics might help you answer the question I posed earlier, it is not necessary. A simple internet search would turn up the data if it existed.

So I'll wait for you to find that answer and get back to me. If the data exists and you provide it, you will undoubtedly prove that what I said was false, and what you claimed was right.

"Classical Greek philosophy consisted of various original works ranging from those from Ancient Greece (e.g. Aristotle) to those Greco-Roman scholars in the classical Roman Empire (e.g. Ptolemy). Though these works were originally written in Greek, for centuries the language of scholarship in the Mediterranean region, many were translated into Syriac, Arabic, and Persian during the Middle Ages and the original Greek versions were often lost" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans...translation:_Arabic_commentary_on_Greek_works

This is a non-sequitur. You and I are not discussing how much you hate Islam. You want to argue that Muslims saved Western society by preserving ancient Greek works that would have otherwise been lost. I am telling you that is a false claim, and there is no evidence to back it up. If Muslims preserved the work of ancient Greeks, then you should be able to compile a long list of all the Greek works that now exist only in Arabic translations, instead of their original Greek forms.

Again, I await your rebuttal on that point, and that point alone. You can argue everything else with someone else.

I don't think you know what a non-sequitur is. What you quoted there was an autobiographical remark where I distinguish between the people and the religion and clarify that the hate for the religion doesn't necessarily have to transfer to the people.

I don't argue that Muslims saved Western society by preserving ancient Greek works that would have otherwise been lost. All I say is that the contributed positively to the West as history shows regardless of whether you accept this fact or not.

 

[meauneau]

@Starman

The first book of Alexander’s commentary on the De Gen. corr., lost in Greek, is said to have been translated by Qusta ibn Luqa,[41] a physician and translator who came from Baalbek to Baghdad in the first decades of the 9th century and had exchanges on medical and philosophical matters with al-Kindi.

Of prominent importance are two writings lost in Greek: On Providence (Fazzo-Wiesner 1993) and a cosmological treatise known in Arabic as On the First Cause, the effect and its movements (ed. Endress 2002).

A commentary on the De Gen. corr., lost in Greek, is said to have been translated by Ustath.

The commentary by Alexander on Book Lambda of the Metaphysics, lost in Greek together with the rest of Alexander’s commentary beyond book Delta, is said to have been translated into Syriac by Hunayn ibn Ishaq.

A commentary on the Physics, lost in Greek, is also mentioned.[83] A translation of the commentary on the Nicomachean Ethics, lost in Greek, is attributed to Ishaq ibn Hunayn.[84]

De Caelo, lost in Greek, was also translated (by Abu Bishr Matta) and revised (by Yahya ibn ʿAdi).[117]

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/arabic-islamic-greek/

 

[m25105]

I'm going to throw my hat in, since I see a lot of people shitting on Muslims in here, even going with retarded statements that Muslims have brought nothing positive to the world.
So before we dive in to history, let's first satisfy the first requirement before they can move the goal post to somewhere, as is their modus operandi the way the bigots work here. And that requirement is "What have you done for me lately?"

In regards to the modern scientists, I tried to confirm if they are Muslims by faith, rather than just birth, because the usual suspects here on this forum, will immediately pounce on that and claim that they're not Muslims and that they achieved what they did, despite Islam, without being able to prove their assertion of course.

By the way, I found it quite disturbing that many of the modern era Muslim scientists have been assassinated with Mossad as the likely culprit.

So let's start.
Abdus Salam

Jamal Nazrul Islam

Aziz Sancar

Atta-ur-Rahman

Salimuzzaman Siddiqui

Ahmed Zewail

Masatoshi Gündüz Ikeda

 

[m25105]

According to wikipedia and their (credible) sources the Gyros was first available in Athens post WW2.

Lol, trying to trigger me? There's a picture of a döner kebap that dates back to the Ottoman Era. Greeks, trying to claim everything as Greek again.

From 1855

And the modern döner kebab / kebap was invented by a Türk in Germany.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Zaytuna College seems like an interesting school:

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Zaytuna College:

 

[Kanuck99]

The Iron Sheik.

They make nice rugs too.

 

[Teppodama]

Well TS, I'd have to say...

1. A re-appreciation of the efficacy of cutlery in conflict resolution.
2. Showing us that vehicular homicide isn't just for DUI'ers anymore
3. Helping us to develop a new appreciation for concrete dividers as architectural accents in urban cityscapes.
4. Affirmation that "Acid = bad"
5. Positing the question "Can one truly put an age on love?".

 

[Mondo Freaks]

The ones that I work with seem to be better workers than some white and Hispanic workers here in Phoenix.

 

[Final Rehab]

Can't think of one, not even their women.

Literally not a contribution. Most average girl white porn stars are better looking, not even counting the elite ones.

Yeah you're right, she's gross, I was just trying to be diplomatic.

 

[jamesmiller14]

Well TS, I'd have to say...

1. A re-appreciation of the efficacy of cutlery in conflict resolution.
2. Showing us that vehicular homicide isn't just for DUI'ers anymore
3. Helping us to develop a new appreciate for concrete dividers as architectural accents in urban cityscapes.
4. Affirmation that "Acid = bad"
5. Positing the question "Can one truly put an age on love?".

Excellent summary.

They also make great cannon fodder for the left.

If only there were a land bridge from the Middle East to here. The entire world could claim "asylum" and everyone could own that iPhone and refrigerator that they so clearly deserve in life.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Christendom wasn't burning everything. Care to cite that?

The western world just lacked the institutions to preserve texts, especially in the damp environment of north west Europe. Most Greek texts had already been translated to Latin a long time ago, there was just a lack of foundations for the dissemination of texts because of the fractured and turbuluent nature that preceded the high middle ages. You can easily follow the reascendence of philosophy in the west with the rise of new stronger institutions.

There is no doubt arab>latin translations sparked a new interest in Aristotle but to say greek-hellenic civilisation would have been lost isn't right in the slightest. Much of Aristotle was still preserved I might add, it was just some key texts that was "rediscovered".
I mean Plato was still read and made a huge impact on Christendom through Augustine. To its detriment; Plato sucks.

You can also add the fact that Thomas of Aquinas was a fierce opponent of the interpration of Aristotle by Averroes.

Starting with Theodosius, Christian Emperor of Rome, a hatred of paganism and hellenism swept the Roman world. So much information was burned. This sentiment carried over into post Roman Europe, creating the Dark Ages.

 

[Fronk]

Starting with Theodosius, Christian Emperor of Rome, a hatred of paganism and hellenism swept the Roman world. So much information was burned. This sentiment carried over into post Roman Europe, creating the Dark Ages.

Well I guess we'll just have to disagree on this. The "Dark Ages" was a product of lack of strong institutions not a lack of greek philosophy. Regionalisation but people certainly didn't forget about Rome. Close ties to Roman, and in turn Greek, culture held up for centuries after Theodosius even though he was obviously a dick. Basically every ruler in the post-roman period strived to be Rome. There is a reason the Heilige Römische Reich is named just that. I mean without taking in scholars like Cassiodorus and Boethius into consideration, the short-lived Carolingian renaissance saw serious conservation efforts of classical literature especially Roman. A huge amount of manuscripts were produced in a short amount of time. It's easy to follow the logic.

 

[ElKarlo]

You keep confusing a culture (Arabs) with their religion (Islam).
Think ffs

No, no, Im not. In many instances they were one and the same. North Africa wasn't Arab , and yet it is now due to Islamic influence. You also had the elites in many Islamic areas able to speak and read in Arabic. So saying what you said proves what?

 

[ElKarlo]

Starting with Theodosius, Christian Emperor of Rome, a hatred of paganism and hellenism swept the Roman world. So much information was burned. This sentiment carried over into post Roman Europe, creating the Dark Ages.

No, that's not how It happened. Literacy was on the decline with starting with the crisis in the 3Rd century . When people are being invaded and towns are being sacked, literacy and things like art, and even higher level crafts dissappear. In fact in some areas wheeled pottery vanished, as they lost that much tech due to instability . It wasn't Christian hatred of things that drove this. That's simple of you

 

[hillelslovak87]

No, that's not how It happened. Literacy was on the decline with starting with the crisis in the 3Rd century . When people are being invaded and towns are being sacked, literacy and things like art, and even higher level crafts dissappear. In fact in some areas wheeled pottery vanished, as they lost that much tech due to instability . It wasn't Christian hatred of things that drove this. That's simple of you

So, you don't think Theodosius making christianity the official religion of the Empire, followed by a wave of anti hellenic purges across the empire by christian fanatics to have contributed towards the elimination of greek sources and greek proficiency throughout Europe had anything to do with the loss of Greek sources throughout the European world, and not the Islamic world?