International What is the real reason for Trump's tariffs?

[Hellowhosthat]

It doesnt matter, he will obviously and with ease be able to afford whatever price is thrown. It's mass consumers that will change their habits. USA can be self reliant and at the same time is the biggest consumer in the world. Literally holding all the cards, cause any limited foreign trade is going to end up in production of jobs and manufacturing in USA.

Tbh we're one of the few countries that's in a trade surplus with the US so it doesn't really bother me.

 

[avenue94]

I think alot of people pause before buying a Chinese car that links to their electronics. I know my old man has been thinking about upgrading from his Tesla for a few years, BYD is the best option but as an old tech head he's not a fan of that Chinese connection.

Probably not given how many Alexa devices Amazon has sold, not to mention China is home to most of the ODMs for consumer tech.

 

[Satsui Ryu]

By independent I mean not relying on other countries for our needs.

Reciprocal tariffs should be our standard policy.

Except we are independent even if we import. Are you not independent because you go to the grocery store to get food? Basically what we do is something along the lines of division of labor which is a basic tenant of efficient economics. Also we do not have access to every element on the planet and cannot grow every crop, etc. I mean what is the point of destroying relations and raising prices to astronomical levels for maybe being back low paying jobs that are probably going away due to technology anyway. Also, has outsourcing been addressed which is probably a much bigger issue than manufacturing as that digs into skilled labor.

And yes we are being bullies by having exorbitant taxes that are indiscriminately being applied to everyone (Australia is in the mix now). And we are becoming isolated by telling the world we are not buying from you and BTW fuck off we are not going to help anyone either.

I look forward to Republicans pretending they never liked Trump as we continue on this indefensible path. 2 months in and we are already seeing it here.

 

[MeatheadMike]

At this stage, do you genuinely believe that anyone in the GOP can convince him to do anything that he doesn't want or has the strength of character to even try?

No, he wants tariffs. The sycophants will nod in agreement. The people who think it's dumb aren't going to risk their political futures to say so. And, as POTUS, he doesn't need anyone's say so. So, he'll do what he wants and if it fails, the blowback is all on him...and us.

Fair point. Unlike his first term where other Republicans and even his VP could curb his worst tendencies, many of the Republicans elected now ran on Trump's coat tails and are basically his yes-men.


But what about his big business doners that helped him get elected? These are powerful people and these polices can adversely affect some of them. But afaik even they aren't even speaking against this.

 

[Renard]

The issue is that people are operating under fundamentally incorrect assumptions. Unconsciously they assume governments are their stern but loving parents, there to look out for them and protect them. That's not the case. People in government are entirely self-interested and almost always controlled by more powerful entities behind the scenes like bankers, technocrats, the intelligence apparatus (for example the WEF was created by a CIA conduit), very powerful corporations, investment firms like BlackRock and Vanguard and so on. Asking why the state is making decisions that hurt you is like asking why is the king making decisions that hurt the peasants. Because the interests of the king and the interests of the peasants don't align. This is facilitated by a large portion of the "peasants" who take a kind of masochistic pleasure in getting abused, as long as the person doing the abuse is in some sort of position of authority over them.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Interesting new interview that explains some of Trumps motivations.

 

[oldshadow]

Except we are independent even if we import. Are you not independent because you go to the grocery store to get food? Basically what we do is something along the lines of division of labor which is a basic tenant of efficient economics. Also we do not have access to every element on the planet and cannot grow every crop, etc. I mean what is the point of destroying relations and raising prices to astronomical levels for maybe being back low paying jobs that are probably going away due to technology anyway. Also, has outsourcing been addressed which is probably a much bigger issue than manufacturing as that digs into skilled labor.

And yes we are being bullies by having exorbitant taxes that are indiscriminately being applied to everyone (Australia is in the mix now). And we are becoming isolated by telling the world we are not buying from you and BTW fuck off we are not going to help anyone either.

I look forward to Republicans pretending they never liked Trump as we continue on this indefensible path. 2 months in and we are already seeing it here.

I don't agree with everything Trump does but we should not depend on other countries for our survival and needs to keep us going. It's fine for wants but not needs. If you charge tariffs on us then we should charge the same on you.

 

[MeatheadMike]

Interesting new interview that explains some of Trumps motivations.

If his goal is to eliminate taxes for people making under $150K why wouldn't he officially state that as the sole reason, especially since it would be more popular than any actual reason he's given?

Also if tariffs are generating significant revenue from importing, that means they wouldn't be curbing imports meaningfully to bring US manufacturing back. Those things can't be true at the same time, so why give them both as a reason?

 

[Satsui Ryu]

I don't agree with everything Trump does but we should not depend on other countries for our survival and needs to keep us going. It's fine for wants but not needs. If you charge tariffs on us then we should charge the same on you.

And we do charge tariffs. But they are measured and focused. It is not bringing a chainsaw when you need a scalpel. That is ridiculous. Plus our economy is so strong because of what we sell to other nations. We can't be like buy our stuff but fuck you we won't buy anything from you. It won't work. Alienating ourself from the rest of the world is awful policy and will hurt us majorly. Doing this whole Connor McGregor chest puffed out thing to the rest of the world is beyond detrimental. And considering how ridiculous it is, it is making a lot of people internal and external wonder if we are flat out working under a malicious pretense.

 

[Natural Order]

Watched Collective Soul do a cover of this at a show last night. Love me some ACDC

 

[gentel]

Krasnov's goals with the tariffs:

• Apply/remove tariffs selectively to reward his personal/political friends and attack adversaries
• Destabilize NATO and the US-centric free trade economic order
• Keep the working class poor and desperate

 

[Hdfi]

Haha, what!? China is about as opposite from free market conditions as you can get. It is also difficult to name a major technology advancement in the last 100 years that did not originate in the United States. No nation in the world comes anywhere close to competing with the US technical know-how.

Also a major reason Chinese labor is so cheap is due to the nonexistent concern for things like human rights, environment, health, safety, or quality. If you consider the total cost there is nothing cheap about Chinese goods, but the politicians and celebrities making boatloads of money off shoring all ethics and morality don't want anyone talking about that.

They are very PRO-free trade especially in Free Trade Zones like Hainan and have lower customs fees. If they were extremely protectionist like you are, they would not have become the largest trading nation on the planet in record time. Also china has more international patents, so stop with this buillshit that they don't create anything.

 

[therealdope]

Why all the red herring about fentanyl?

Ya, my comment was a little short, sorry.

I think Fentanyl is a real thing but not the most important to the US. We now know that the "<1% from Canada" is bullshit. The RCMP has known it's not true for 10+ yrs (apparently). I think the US is pissed that our laws make it easy for crime rings to operate and dump drugs into the US. I'm sure most Canadians didn't know until recently about how we are used by foreign crime syndicates as an easy way into the US.




Back to my comment about leverage in refinancing the $10 trillion in debt that comes due in the next 6 month. My impression is that Trump is tossing grenades in all directions to do two things: (1) to see who flinches, and (2) to shine a light on the weak hands.

In the first case (for example), I think he found out how useless Canada is in responding to anything. In the 4 months that our leaders have had to do something (like literally fucking anything) the US has found out that we have nothing. No foreign trade deals with Europe or Asia, no new pipelines, no strategic deals for rare minerals, no 'invest in Canada' by changing RRSP or pension fund contribution limits on US investments (ooooh, no one wants to piss of the Ontario teachers union). We have nothing to respond with and our chairman of the bank of Canada said as much.

In the second case, who is going to invest in a tariffed EU that is scrambling to increase military spending, has no growth in productivity, and is still reliant on Russia for energy.

When the $10 trillion is due for re-financing Trump/the US is going to look around and say, "we're the most secure borrower around, now gives a better rate".

 

[Cartiac]

They are very PRO-free trade especially in Free Trade Zones like Hainan and have lower customs fees. If they were extremely protectionist like you are, they would not have become the largest trading nation on the planet in record time. Also china has more international patents, so stop with this buillshit that they don't create anything.

So what has China created in the last 100 years? Hell, they can't even take credit for COVID since we know Dr Fauci created that.

 

[Hdfi]

So what has China created in the last 100 years? Hell, they can't even take credit for COVID since we know Dr Fauci created that.

SLJ900/32 machine (bridge-building machine), 120-tonne pure-electric NTE130E mining truck, artemisinin-based treatment for malaria, Weidu I (ultra-compact and flexible portable surveying drone - their drone tech is #1 in the world), etc.

 

[N13]

A break of couple days was good for the brain.

I get that action sometimes. Needed a few days to reset my mind/brain complex a few days ago. There have been times when I went missing for months, even years.

 

[N13]

Ya, my comment was a little short, sorry.

I think Fentanyl is a real thing but not the most important to the US. We now know that the "<1% from Canada" is bullshit. The RCMP has known it's not true for 10+ yrs (apparently). I think the US is pissed that our laws make it easy for crime rings to operate and dump drugs into the US. I'm sure most Canadians didn't know until recently about how we are used by foreign crime syndicates as an easy way into the US.




Back to my comment about leverage in refinancing the $10 trillion in debt that comes due in the next 6 month. My impression is that Trump is tossing grenades in all directions to do two things: (1) to see who flinches, and (2) to shine a light on the weak hands.

In the first case (for example), I think he found out how useless Canada is in responding to anything. In the 4 months that our leaders have had to do something (like literally fucking anything) the US has found out that we have nothing. No foreign trade deals with Europe or Asia, no new pipelines, no strategic deals for rare minerals, no 'invest in Canada' by changing RRSP or pension fund contribution limits on US investments (ooooh, no one wants to piss of the Ontario teachers union). We have nothing to respond with and our chairman of the bank of Canada said as much.

In the second case, who is going to invest in a tariffed EU that is scrambling to increase military spending, has no growth in productivity, and is still reliant on Russia for energy.

When the $10 trillion is due for re-financing Trump/the US is going to look around and say, "we're the most secure borrower around, now gives a better rate".

Trump wants to issue 100 year bonds. Not sure about the details yet.

Could we actually see a US Treasury dollar backed by gold? I can't think of another way to sell those bonds unless the rate of return was very high and this method would not save much on the costs of that new debt.

Ideas anyone?

 

[N13]

Canada placed some tariffs on China in October (electric cars, steel and aluminum) and now China responded with tariffs on some of Canada's agriculture products; 100% tariffs.

Interesting.

Can't wait to see how this plays out. A preview of what is to come.....

 

[AmonTobin]

Europe crushing RED STATES over Trump tariffs

 

[Contempt]

These are the main tariff theories I've seen, but none of them fully make sense and even the reasons that Trump himself gave are incompatible with each other:


1) To combat Security Risks. It's what he said regarding Fentanyl. Might make sense for Mexico or possibly China, but makes no sense that he's also tariffing countries like Australia or Canada, and he hasn't even stated what specific demands he wants fulfilled to remove the tariffs.

2) To bring back manufacturing to the US. He also gave this as a reason, and if true it would mean what he said about #1 above is not true. But if this is his goal, it makes no sense to use blanket tariffs instead of targeting specific industries, and it doesn't explain why he keeps going back and forth pausing/unpausing the tariffs instead of just laying out his plan.

3) To negotiate better trade deals. This would maybe explain why he keeps going back and forth pausing/unpausing tariffs. It would mean that what he said in #1 #2 & #4 are false but would sort of explain why he stated them (misdirection). This is the one I'd want to be true, but it assumes the most guile out of Trump, and also doesn't make sense because NAFTA is up for review in 2026 anyway, so it would make more sense to just renegotiate during that window. By doing it this way, he seems to be damaging relationships with trading partners and causing mistrust, which is not conductive to free trade.

4) To raise revenue to fund tax cuts. He specifically said tariffs will make the US rich again. This would mean #1, & #3 are false because he's not using the tariffs to negotiate. Also #2 would be false because if manufacturing were truly brought back to the US, then the tariffs wouldn't be generating much revenue as there would be little importing. Tax cuts are the standard Republican MO, but this still doesn't explain why he keeps going back and forth pausing/unpausing etc.

5) To disrupt the US's standing with the rest of the world, strengthen ties with Russia, or cause a stock market crash so that the wealthy can buy up the stocks at discount. Basically Krasnov theory... I don't believe its his true goal, but some of it may end up being unintended consequences. It would explain the erratic back and forth on/off with the tariffs fwiw.


Notice that pretty much all of these theories (except for maybe #5) must be mutually exclusive for them to truly fulfill their stated purpose.

So which one do you think is the true motive behind the tariffs?

Points 1-4 all correct. Point 5 is retarded.