what is the proper response to Russia & China?

[IGIT]

The response is obviously do whatever the opposite of Obama says is, unless what he does/says works, then just mention obamacare and benghazi.

hi Striderxdj,

that's kind of what i'm getting from the posts here in the War Room. Mr. Obama's foreign policy, has been restrained and almost isolationist (with the exception of his administration's drone policy) - it's pretty much exactly what everyone wants...so i don't understand why he doesn't get more credit, in a populist sort of way.

i get that there is anxiety over Russia and China, but no one in this thread really has suggested anything they'd like the POTUS do about it.

- IGIT

 

[ZroC]

Knock on China's door and tell them that Russia has been talking behind their back saying they have little dicks. Then go to Russia, knock on their door and tell them China says they are racist. Spread rumors about how either one says they could beat the other in a fight.

Hey it actually worked during the cold war.

 

[weed]

If we are going to do anything, we are going to have to wright the ship at home, and make some more useful allies, and stop draining our resources over things that have no clear benefit. Leaving Israel to the wolves would be one of the things that need to happen first.

agreed, fuck this one sided mooching of a relationship.


wasn't it Netanyahu's campaign to take out Iran that kinda started the sparks with Russia, or rather, rekindled them?

 

[GhostZ06]

agreed, fuck this one sided mooching of a relationship.


wasn't it Netanyahu's campaign to take out Iran that kinda started the sparks with Russia, or rather, rekindled them?

This and also cut ties with pakistan would be a huge move an boost are our ties with India. Or foreign policy is complete crap. Its still works like a cold war foreign policy which that is over. Current politicians seem to live in this fantasy dream world that the soviet empire is still rolling hard. Well if that was the case.

 

[IGIT]

This and also cut ties with pakistan would be a huge move an boost are our ties with India. Or foreign policy is complete crap. Its still works like a cold war foreign policy which that is over. Current politicians seem to live in this fantasy dream world that the soviet empire is still rolling hard. Well if that was the case.

hello GhostZ06,

first of all, though there is support in the War Room for cutting off Israel, its just not going to happen - not unless you have a proposal on how to make the Republican Party disappear?

sorry, not happening. you may want President Obama to cut off US massive military aid to Israel, but the GOP would never, ever allow it.

The GOP over the last few years has gone from being a reflexively hawkish “pro-Israel” party during the Bush years to being one that eagerly caters to the most fanatical kinds of “pro-Israel” views without even trying to pretend otherwise.

It has gone from being almost completely uncritical in its support for hard-line Israeli policies to becoming a party dominated by mindless yes-men on anything related to the country.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-gop-and-israel/

..and regarding Pakistan? Pakistan is in the midst of peace talks with India...peace talks that might end up being scuttled if the Pakistani Taliban intervene - and that is why the US is spending money (but not putting boots on the ground) to destablize and destroy the Taliban in that region.

a reasonable use of taxpayer dollars, and far less costly than fighting wars that the neocons spawned - wars which lasted more than a decade.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

agreed, fuck this one sided mooching of a relationship.

wasn't it Netanyahu's campaign to take out Iran that kinda started the sparks with Russia, or rather, rekindled them?

hello there Bebop,

you may want President Obama to take a harder line with Israel, and to be fair to him, he's trying...but it's hard for him to really execute on any kind of policy regarding Israel that would make you happy - the GOP has blocked him at every turn and are firmly in bed with Netanyahu.

You used to be able to find critics of Israel in the Republican Party.

Former senators Charles Mathias and Chuck Percy and Representative Paul Findley come to mind. But the Democrats, and particularly liberal Democrats, stood squarely behind whatever the Israeli government was doing.

Over the last decades, however, as Israel’s governments have become more conservative, and as the occupation has persisted, the polarities have begun to reverse.

You can now find the most militant defenders of Israel’s government in the Republican Party while the ranks of Democrats include a good number of critics.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117214/republicans-and-democrats-part-ways-israel

- IGIT

 

[Orgasmo]

Leave the Asians to sort out their mess with China. At the first sign of trouble, Japan, Taiwan, Philippines, South Korea and Vietnam run to US for help. They're not doing enough on their own because they know they can mooch off of US. It also embolden these countries to take a tougher stand when they can compromise, knowing US had their backs. It's about time they take care of their own mess, and boost their own defence spending instead of crying for aid.

Same with Ukraine. This is clearly a struggle between Russia and EU. Unless you want to continue playing world police some more, there is really no reason to join into the fray. It costs resources and fosters dependence. Europe has been under-spending on defence for decades.

 

[Tseren**]

Leave the Asians to sort out their mess with China. At the first sign of trouble, Japan, Taiwan, Philippines, South Korea and Vietnam run to US for help. They're not doing enough on their own because they know they can mooch off of US. It also embolden these countries to take a tougher stand when they can compromise, knowing US had their backs. It's about time they take care of their own mess, and boost their own defence spending instead of crying for aid.

Same with Ukraine. This is clearly a struggle between Russia and EU. Unless you want to continue playing world police some more, there is really no reason to join into the fray. It costs resources and fosters dependence. Europe has been under-spending on defence for decades.

Yeah because the US just stays involved in those spheres to help the allies out, you know because Americans are so benevolent they just want peace and order everywhere.

 

[Kevin Rudd]

This and also cut ties with pakistan would be a huge move an boost are our ties with India.

No way can I agree with this. Pakistan has nukes, they need to be kept on a leash because the country is full of hardliners.

Don't want them going rogue.

 

[Orgasmo]

Yeah because the US just stays involved in those spheres to help the allies out, you know because Americans are so benevolent they just want peace and order everywhere.

Of course the US has other plans in mind. It wants to maintain a world order that suits American interest. However, this path of intervention is slowly becoming too much of a burden. Americans need to know that you don't get to stay on top forever, as all powers will eventually go into decline. You can slow down that process by reigning in available resources, or continue to over-extend yourself, therefore your own demise.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Could probably find a better way to express this idea lol

Scorpions?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

hello MadSquabbles,



so on one hand you'd like the POTUS to turn his attentions inward, to the nation, but at the same time we withdraw from the world stage you want him to make "useful allies"?


i'm sure the folks at the State Department consider Israel very much a useful ally.

- IGIT

Wrighting the ship, if I spelled that right, does not mean we isolate ourselves completely.

Does the usefulness of Israel outweigh our usefulness to them or is it even even at this point? I mean what could Israel provide us that others in the region cannot if we even offer those others a fraction of what we provide Israel?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

lol what? That probably cut the population in half.



China will destroy itself over time. Not many people understand that china's greatest threat is itself. A lot of people have hard no's for china and Russia. Beijing can only do so much to hold the country together an that task on its on is very hard to do. Considering the size and diversity of the country's people

China, and the Chinese like being unified. All their golden dynasties were unified. If anything is destroyed it will be the current party. If that happens, they will probably turn into what Russia is today.

 

[Cold Front]

I'm not the slightest bit worried about Russia. But China will soon be a major competitor. Naturally, both parties seem not to care about Beijing's intentions and debate endlessly about Moscow's intentions.

 

[IGIT]

hello Orgasmo,

Leave the Asians to sort out their mess with China. At the first sign of trouble, Japan, Taiwan, Philippines, South Korea and Vietnam run to US for help. They're not doing enough on their own because they know they can mooch off of US.

the problem of leaving our allies to twist in the wind, is that (as others have pointed out) that the US wants to strengthen their ties with their relevant allies, not to "leave the Asians to short out their mess with China", lol.

Same with Ukraine. This is clearly a struggle between Russia and EU. Unless you want to continue playing world police some more, there is really no reason to join into the fray. It costs resources and fosters dependence. Europe has been under-spending on defence for decades.

well, you should be pretty happy with President Obama, i reckon. at least as far as Russian policy goes.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

No way can I agree with this. Pakistan has nukes, they need to be kept on a leash because the country is full of hardliners.

Don't want them going rogue.

hello Kevin,

yes, lol.

i mean, i can think of many sound reasons you'd want to make sure that the Taliban that operate in Pakistan don't get the keys to the seat of power.

it's weird how ultra isolationist everyone has become, but it's weirder still have these folks don't lay their praises at the feet of Mr. Obama. you'd think they'd approve of his foreign policy - or at the very least acknowledge that it's a massive improvement over the nation building years of the previous POTUS.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

Wrighting the ship, if I spelled that right, does not mean we isolate ourselves completely.

Does the usefulness of Israel outweigh our usefulness to them or is it even even at this point? I mean what could Israel provide us that others in the region cannot if we even offer those others a fraction of what we provide Israel?

hello Mr. Squabbles,

haha...alrighty, thats all well and good...but if you want to end US massive foreign aid to Israel, you're going to have to find a way to make the GOP disappear.

Uncritical support (for Israel) is simply taken for granted, and becomes a litmus test for maintaining one’s standing on the right.
Most of the 2012 candidates were climbing over one another in their eagerness to express just how total and undying their devotion was.

Whatever the reasons may be, the Republican Party has become far more uniform and intense in its “pro-Israel” views than it used to be, and it is becoming this way at the same time that the country as a whole is becoming much less so.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-gop-and-israel/

- IGIT

 

[Kevin Rudd]

hello Kevin,

yes, lol.

i mean, i can think of many sound reasons you'd want to make sure that the Taliban that operate in Pakistan don't get the keys to the seat of power.

it's weird how ultra isolationist everyone has become, but it's weirder still have these folks don't lay their praises at the feet of Mr. Obama. you'd think they'd approve of his foreign policy - or at the very least acknowledge that it's a massive improvement over the nation building years of the previous POTUS.

- IGIT

I don't think it is weird, I think people are simply tired of conflict and their response is to stay out of other countries business. I can certainly relate to that. The US has been in conflict for over 10 years now with Iraq and then Afghanistan.

But in terms of Pakistan that country is full of whackos and they have nukes. That needs to be controlled imo.

 

[Orgasmo]

hello Orgasmo,



the problem of leaving our allies to twist in the wind, is that (as others have pointed out) that the US wants to strengthen their ties with their relevant allies, not to "leave the Asians to short out their mess with China", lol.

Having allies is great, not so much when they're not pulling their weight. It gives them a false sense of confidence to take a bold stance when logic dictate they should talk. It also drags US into conflicts that has little to do with its own sovereignty/security. Fighting the wars of your allies is simply following the old world policeman path. I believe the American public is fed up with it.

well, you should be pretty happy with President Obama, i reckon. at least as far as Russian policy goes.

- IGIT

Considering US has had a hand in the whole mess from the start, I don't think so. Victoria Nuland's intercepted phone call and the sighting of CIA drones in Ukraine aren't exactly examples of noninterference. You can't dip your hand half way in and claim your hands are clean. Either stay away completely, or back up your threats. Obama has failed at both miserably.

 

[IGIT]

I don't think it is weird, I think people are simply tired of conflict and their response is to stay out of other countries business. I can certainly relate to that. The US has been in conflict for over 10 years now with Iraq and then Afghanistan.

But in terms of Pakistan that country is full of whackos and they have nukes. That needs to be controlled imo.

heya Kevin,

but the thing is, in Pakistan the US is staying out of conflict. we're not sending over US troops, but rather doing the same thing Presidents have been doing for ages now; wielding soft power via foreign aid.

- IGIT