What happened to closed guard? And what replaced it?

[TriangleMonkey]

I think the guard-passing has a lot to do with it

People are getting better staying safe inside those guards and more saavy passing getting through the legs

 

[Stoic1]

Rounds, points, just bleed fans.

 

[Killhippies]

The high percentage submissions from closed are so well known that they are difficult to pull off now. In BJJ, even worse case, it could be used to rest and fight for hand position but in MMA you are vulnerable to GnP. Just staying in open is more conducive to sweeps and submission versatility so it's better if you act quicker. You don't want to risk getting GnPed or LnPed if you are not active on the bottom.

Closed is a defensive position that isn't so defensive in MMA.

Also, not for nothing but the dagestanis are also dominating grappling and sambo disfavors closed guard.

 

[DayV]

Elbows and 5 minute rounds happened.

 

[Tweak896]

I feel like the ground game is slowly fading away, there are some surprise subs or especially after someone is rocked. But it used to be a legit strategy to sweep opponents and then take over, it's rare now. Or landing armbars off your back, no one gives hip room to do it anymore. Guys train to deliver gnp in only positions they can't get subbed or swept. Only high level guys like Burns are really avoided on the ground, but everyone else is fair game. The ground game is essentially becoming a vestigial organ from a time in the past. Well for BJJ, but wrestling is still #1.

 

[Cameron]

Closed guard is a bad position when strikes are involved. You don’t see much even in nogi Jiu-jitsu and very rarely in the gi at the highest level.

In modern mma rubber is a better option but even that commits you to the bottom position. You see guys heisting and getting to their feet and or using butterfly guard to get up.

The modern mma meta dictates you need to get top position.

Whenever I see a fighter try and use or get to closed guard that is then basically accepting a losing position and just trying to stay safe.

 

[Cameron]

I feel like the ground game is slowly fading away, there are some surprise subs or especially after someone is rocked. But it used to be a legit strategy to sweep opponents and then take over, it's rare now. Or landing armbars off your back, no one gives hip room to do it anymore. Guys train to deliver gnp in only positions they can't get subbed or swept. Only high level guys like Burns are really avoided on the ground, but everyone else is fair game. The ground game is essentially becoming a vestigial organ from a time in the past. Well for BJJ, but wrestling is still #1.

Considering most champs are high level grapplers this is a bit off base.

Wrestling is the best base but the champs use a lot of grappling.

Pantoja, merab, volk on his way up the ranks, Islam, belal, even ddp uses a lot of grappling,

Grappling is still king.

 

[Tweak896]

Considering most champs are high level grapplers this is a bit off base.

Wrestling is the best base but the champs use a lot of grappling.

Pantoja, merab, volk on his way up the ranks, Islam, belal, even ddp uses a lot of grappling,

Grappling is still king.

I guess it's wrestling vs BJJ is what I mean. Not saying they don't submit, but even those guys you mentioned only a couple subs out of the lot. Mostly either getting up to feet or holding someone down. There is just so much depth to BJJ that isn't used like it used to.

 

[mraa1]

Catch wrestling won

 

[NicholasJBasile]

Fighters seem more likely these days to wall walk or just give up their back for a moment to try and stand up.

 

[Pierced7681]

Lots of wmma fighters use it that should tell you everything

 

[don't ask]

High level BJJ guys coming into the sport are still dangerous with it, but there aren't many MMA guys cross-training in BJJ who are becoming high-level enough to be dangerous with it.

 

[Cameron]

I guess it's wrestling vs BJJ is what I mean. Not saying they don't submit, but even those guys you mentioned only a couple subs out of the lot. Mostly either getting up to feet or holding someone down. There is just so much depth to BJJ that isn't used like it used to.

That’s fair. I do think Jiu-jitsu for mma is also evolving more to focus on standing up or positional control instead of getting classic subs.

 

[HeffDoesWant]

Contray to the official but largely ignored scoring criteria, top control doesn't require any effective damage or grappling to win rounds.

See Usman or Finney for stark examples.

 

[HeffDoesWant]

High level BJJ guys coming into the sport are still dangerous with it, but there aren't many MMA guys cross-training in BJJ who are becoming high-level enough to be dangerous with it.

Closed guard isn't really dangerous even against top bjj guys. Typically you need an open guard to establish the submission but then close it to finish.

 

[don't ask]

Closed guard isn't really dangerous even against top bjj guys. Typically you need an open guard to establish the submission but then close it to finish.

I'm not saying it's dangerous against top BJJ guys. I'm saying if you're a top BJJ guy, you can still be dangerous with it.

 

[Pierce 34]

Guard is a losing position in MMA because of top control. If they made some weird rule change where full Guard doesn't count as top control..guard playing would be a strategic goal

 

[tasticles]

Closed guard is a bad position when strikes are involved. You don’t see much even in nogi Jiu-jitsu and very rarely in the gi at the highest level.

In modern mma rubber is a better option but even that commits you to the bottom position. You see guys heisting and getting to their feet and or using butterfly guard to get up.

The modern mma meta dictates you need to get top position.

Whenever I see a fighter try and use or get to closed guard that is then basically accepting a losing position and just trying to stay safe.

I'm an older guy where the guard wasn't a terrible spot until you could hit a sweep.

What is your recommendation for getting up from someone doing a double leg on you?

 

[Cameron]

I'm an older guy where the guard wasn't a terrible spot until you could hit a sweep.

What is your recommendation for getting up from someone doing a double leg on you?

Heisting up to dent their ability to smother your hips. Digging and underhook and trying to get to butterfly. You could always turtle and quad post as well. Or getting to the octopus position.

 

[BowserJr]

I feel like the ground game is slowly fading away, there are some surprise subs or especially after someone is rocked. But it used to be a legit strategy to sweep opponents and then take over, it's rare now. Or landing armbars off your back, no one gives hip room to do it anymore. Guys train to deliver gnp in only positions they can't get subbed or swept. Only high level guys like Burns are really avoided on the ground, but everyone else is fair game. The ground game is essentially becoming a vestigial organ from a time in the past. Well for BJJ, but wrestling is still #1.

Correct and it sucks.
Before, guys used to get subs from bottom or work from the bottom and in a real fight that can be huge but in UFC scoring you're always losing from bottom even if you're kicking the top guys ass and have him in fanger non stop.

I wosh they'd revamp scoring