What happened to closed guard? And what replaced it?

These days you either stand and bang or get grapple fucked. Sport is devolving.

UFC is dying
 
BowserJr said:
Correct and it sucks.
Before, guys used to get subs from bottom or work from the bottom and in a real fight that can be huge but in UFC scoring you're always losing from bottom even if you're kicking the top guys ass and have him in fanger non stop.

I wosh they'd revamp scoring
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Yeah but I also think it's a matter of the guy on top being more educated usually to get the positions on top where they can't be subbed or swept. Even back 10+ years ago no one wanted to be on bottom unless it was a submission hunter. The biggest change in the meta has been the one defending the grappling will stick near the fence. But then that leads us to wall and stall when one guy can't be taken down and the other can't get him down. I just think super aggressive break ups will be the only thing to solve this.
 
Tweak896 said:
Yeah but I also think it's a matter of the guy on top being more educated usually to get the positions on top where they can't be subbed or swept. Even back 10+ years ago no one wanted to be on bottom unless it was a submission hunter. The biggest change in the meta has been the one defending the grappling will stick near the fence. But then that leads us to wall and stall when one guy can't be taken down and the other can't get him down. I just think super aggressive break ups will be the only thing to solve this.
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Or switching to a ring, both of which will never happen.

The cage literally stifles action
 
EndlessCritic said:
The notion that closed guard is dead in MMA is just complete nonsense. Elite guys like Satoshi are still using it to great effect:

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Fantastic fight! I love watching top level BJJ guys doing their thing.
 
Here's a semi-related thought about closed guard: I once read a Rickson quote that said closed guard was supposed to be an aggressive guard, open guard was where you rested. I've always tried to approach it like that and MMA fighters that do the same are pretty effective with it.
 
EndlessCritic said:
The notion that closed guard is dead in MMA is just complete nonsense. Elite guys like Satoshi are still using it to great effect:

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Satoshi is one of very few guys who's effective with it though and he very rarely stays in it for long, it usually ends up being more of an open guard with him.

Even guys like Kron Gracie can't do anything with it. Guys at the higher levels just don't put their arms on the mat anymore, they don't really risk posturing much to pass, they just punch and pass.

It'll be interesting to see if Kleber can do anything with it against Shaydullaev on Sunday, but I have feeling he's just going to get the shit beaten out of him.
 
Hellowhosthat said:
Satoshi is one of very few guys who's effective with it though and he very rarely stays in it for long, it usually ends up being more of an open guard with him.

Even guys like Kron Gracie can't do anything with it. Guys at the higher levels just don't put their arms on the mat anymore, they don't really risk posturing much to pass, they just punch and pass.

It'll be interesting to see if Kleber can do anything with it against Shaydullaev on Sunday, but I have feeling he's just going to get the shit beaten out of him.
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There are still so many evolutions yet to be explored in the closed guard.

One very underrated one is trapping your opponent's hand in your armpit, instead of a traditional overhook. See Yuki Motoya vs Scoggins and Paul Craig vs Jamahal Hill.



 
EndlessCritic said:
There are still so many evolutions yet to be explored in the closed guard.

One very underrated one is trapping your opponent's hand in your armpit, instead of a traditional overhook. See Yuki Motoya vs Scoggins and Paul Craig vs Jamahal Hill.



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Yeah that makes sense because of the MMA gloves I suppose. Probably difficult to do once you get to a stage where people are looking out for it though.
 
Hellowhosthat said:
Yeah that makes sense because of the MMA gloves I suppose. Probably difficult to do once you get to a stage where people are looking out for it though.
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Not really. Karel Pravec has an entire system based on it without the gloves. He calls it split guard.

 
Terminalwhitebelt said:
I have seen closed guard less and less in MMA (which makes sense for obv reasons). My question is: what replaced it, and why?
From recent memory I can think of a ton people playing half guard from bottom, but how is that any better than closed guard?
It seems like fighters work on turning away from their opponent (while keeping an underhook to stop giving up their back) in order to work up to their feet.
My only theory is that half guard / positions that occupy the hands of the guy on top is safer than closed guard where the guy on top has their hands free to punch/elbow.
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Closed guard simply isnt being used right and majority of people panic when there on the bottom and try and get up ...

You obviously dont want to stay in closed guard but it can absolutely be a weapon ..
 
GordoBarraBJJ said:
Kron got tko'd by bryce
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Yeah. Kron will forever be rememebered as the "closed guard jumping - got put to sleep guy".
He basically helped kill off the position in MMA more than it was already was dying.
 
Terminalwhitebelt said:
I have seen closed guard less and less in MMA (which makes sense for obv reasons). My question is: what replaced it, and why?
From recent memory I can think of a ton people playing half guard from bottom, but how is that any better than closed guard?
It seems like fighters work on turning away from their opponent (while keeping an underhook to stop giving up their back) in order to work up to their feet.
My only theory is that half guard / positions that occupy the hands of the guy on top is safer than closed guard where the guy on top has their hands free to punch/elbow.
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Can't do offense with closed guard. Need to use Eddie Bravo's conspiracy theory rubber guard. Look into it...
 
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