What does a Brown Belt mean in BJJ

[inverted vortex]

we have 1 brown belt at our school, so my experience with brown belts is limited. As a blue belt of roughly the same size, i see his game as very very tight compared to my sometimes sloppy, impulsive game. as a blue belt I try to emulate him as much as possible. his guard passing is tight and demoralizing, and much of the time it looks like he's not really trying, but feels like a man thrice his size putting pressure on you.

Anyway, I think having a brown belt means you've worked hard and are legit. you shouldn't have one if you're not legit.

 

[greenocelot]

we have 1 brown belt at our school, so my experience with brown belts is limited. As a blue belt of roughly the same size, i see his game as very very tight compared to my sometimes sloppy, impulsive game. as a blue belt I try to emulate him as much as possible. his guard passing is tight and demoralizing, and much of the time it looks like he's not really trying, but feels like a man thrice his size putting pressure on you.

Anyway, I think having a brown belt means you've worked hard and are legit. you shouldn't have one if you're not legit.

Honestly, starting training for two years at 14 and now in my 20s after training Jiu Jitsu for nearly six years, I don't feel any different. I feel there is so much that I could improve in my game. My top game needs a lot of work.

 

[inverted vortex]

for a higher belt to challenge themself against lower belts, they need to put themself in bad positions. you don't learn much by crushing white belts, but by letting them take your back or letting them get 95% of the way past your guard before starting to defend, it makes you work.

If I'm going against someone as good as me or better, I'm giving 100% in training. anyone below my level, i'm working on technique and trying new things, sharpening my game.

 

[inverted vortex]

Honestly, starting training for two years at 14 and now in my 20s after training Jiu Jitsu for nearly six years, I don't feel any different. I feel there is so much that I could improve in my game. My top game needs a lot of work.

there is always room to improve. that's why we train. do you not feel that you're deserving of your brown belt? if so, why? are blue belts clowning you in training? you must have done something right to be given the belt. most instructors don't hand them out undeservedly.

 

[greenocelot]

there is always room to improve. that's why we train. do you not feel that you're deserving of your brown belt? if so, why? are blue belts clowning you in training? you must have done something right to be given the belt. most instructors don't hand them out undeservedly.

I hope you stick with it and becoming better from his guard passing. At our gym we have a smashing black belt. I know what you mean. Every time i roll with him I feel I cannot stop his angry guard passing. I have been working a lot of my guard pass guard recovery, back takes, and activeness to combat his passing.

That is true, I still feel like a beginner in grappling after 2 years shootfighting and 6 years Jiu Jitsu, but I am improving.

 

[IamnotJonFitch]

This was an interesting thread to read.

To me, a measly but experienced white belt, the difference between a black and brown belt is almost unnoticeable. I suppose with brown belts, you might be able to hold your own for a smidge longer, but I mean...not really. I will say that black belts tend to test me more, let me get away with more things. I often feel them get a grip, and then let it go for no reason, probably to see what's going through my mind before they kill me, and they generally offer me advice in the middle of rolling, like "nope don't do that you're losing your base" and so on. But browns do that as well...

Purple belts are different than Brown belts. I can last with certain purple belts for long periods of time. There's a purple in my gym who I rolled with for 8 whole minutes and he couldn't snag one in, which never ever ever happens with a brown. It was pretty much the best day of my life. But, they always always beat me, no doubt about it.

Blue belts to me are kind of hit or miss. There are some blues that smash me and tap me quick, usually long time blue belts or really athletic ones, but then there are some that I can out position and sometimes make tap. It seems like the most ambiguous belt rank to me, though I still generally prepare to get raped when I'm about to roll with one.

Anyways, since there don't seem to be many other white belts in this thread I just thought I'd throw in my point of view.

 

[greenocelot]

This was an interesting thread to read.

To me, a measly but experienced white belt, the difference between a black and brown belt is almost unnoticeable. I suppose with brown belts, you might be able to hold your own for a smidge longer, but I mean...not really. I will say that black belts tend to test me more, let me get away with more things. I often feel them get a grip, and then let it go for no reason, probably to see what's going through my mind before they kill me, and they generally offer me advice in the middle of rolling, like "nope don't do that you're losing your base" and so on. But browns do that as well...

Purple belts are different than Brown belts. I can last with certain purple belts for long periods of time. There's a purple in my gym who I rolled with for 8 whole minutes and he couldn't snag one in, which never ever ever happens with a brown. It was pretty much the best day of my life. But, they always always beat me, no doubt about it.

Blue belts to me are kind of hit or miss. There are some blues that smash me and tap me quick, usually long time blue belts or really athletic ones, but then there are some that I can out position and sometimes make tap. It seems like the most ambiguous belt rank to me, though I still generally prepare to get raped when I'm about to roll with one.

Anyways, since there don't seem to be many other white belts in this thread I just thought I'd throw in my point of view.

You make some great points. I am just a new brown belt, but I noticed most black belts are great grip fighters from guard, maybe because it was something brown or below could get away with against lower belts.

 

[IamnotJonFitch]

You make some great points. I am just a new brown belt, but I noticed most black belts are great grip fighters from guard, maybe because it was something brown or below could get away with against lower belts.

Congrats on the promotion man, that's a big deal.

 

[lechien]

Honestly, starting training for two years at 14 and now in my 20s after training Jiu Jitsu for nearly six years, I don't feel any different. I feel there is so much that I could improve in my game. My top game needs a lot of work.

How can you prove your top game?

From memory, you are not a light guy.

I would expect you to crush your training partners.

 

[greenocelot]

How can you prove your top game?

From memory, you are not a light guy.

I would expect you to crush your training partners.

You are funny, but I feel bad about crushing my training partners, so I always just try to let them move and take their back.

 

[lechien]

You are funny, but I feel bad about crushing my training partners, so I always just try to let them move and take their back.

Then your top game does not need improvement if you do not want to crush them.

 

[greenocelot]

Then your top game does not need improvement if you do not want to crush them.

I never thought about it that way. You are wise. Too bad one of our 220 Lb four stripe brown belts does not do this, his knee on sternum makes you want to cry.

 

[ChrmnMa0]

A brown belt is a black belt without the responsibility

 

[HEAVY GRAPPLER]

I never thought about it that way. You are wise. Too bad one of our 220 Lb four stripe brown belts does not do this, his knee on sternum makes you want to cry.

To offer a contradictory opinion: you should crush.

You aren't doing yourself any favours if you become a big guy who doesn't know how to use his weight. What's the point of that? Crush them. But do it technically. Don't injure people by throwing yourself on them - crush them by gaining positional advantage and distributing your weight correctly. It took me until late blue belt to learn this. I took a private from a 155lb black belt on pressure to remedy this. He said "you're the lightest 230lbs I've ever felt." The problem came from always playing guard because when i started, nobody would roll with me unless i agreed to start on bottom. CRUSH THEM.

To the topic of this thread; what does a brown belt mean?

In my experience, it means there are still holes in your game which are obvious to a black belt, but not to anybody lower. What i mean is that sometimes I roll with a blue belt and I am slightly out of position (as i pass half guard for example.) He's not going to get the sweep, but I know something isn't right. A black belt is going to exploit that hole and get right on top.

It's not some magic that the black belt can do it - it's that the defect is small, probably particular to the situation and requires a specific response to exploit it. Then apply that rule across the spectrum of techniques.

A brown belt is going to occasionally catch black belts in rolling, because there will be several scenarios in which the brown belt doesn't have any exploitable defects anymore - or because the brown belt has other attributes (size, strength, speed,) which overcome the relatively small defects in their game.

 

[greenocelot]

To offer a contradictory opinion: you should crush.

You aren't doing yourself any favours if you become a big guy who doesn't know how to use his weight. What's the point of that? Crush them. But do it technically. Don't injure people by throwing yourself on them - crush them by gaining positional advantage and distributing your weight correctly. It took me until late blue belt to learn this. I took a private from a 155lb black belt on pressure to remedy this. He said "you're the lightest 230lbs I've ever felt." The problem came from always playing guard because when i started, nobody would roll with me unless i agreed to start on bottom. CRUSH THEM.

To the topic of this thread; what does a brown belt mean?

In my experience, it means there are still holes in your game which are obvious to a black belt, but not to anybody lower. What i mean is that sometimes I roll with a blue belt and I am slightly out of position (as i pass half guard for example.) He's not going to get the sweep, but I know something isn't right. A black belt is going to exploit that hole and get right on top.

It's not some magic that the black belt can do it - it's that the defect is small, probably particular to the situation and requires a specific response to exploit it. Then apply that rule across the spectrum of techniques.

A brown belt is going to occasionally catch black belts in rolling, because there will be several scenarios in which the brown belt doesn't have any exploitable defects anymore - or because the brown belt has other attributes (size, strength, speed,) which overcome the relatively small defects in their game.

What would be a good way of getting rid of these small defects, so that I can improve my game?

 

[Thai Otoshi]

For what its worth I can back up these experiences with judoka in Japan. After two years of no-gi I dominated a judo BB the first week I trained in a gi. It was his first week at BJJ as well. He was a college kid and was tough in that he could take a beating but that was about it. He took his BB off and put on a white belt after that.

Fast forward a few years and I'm getting fucked up by a old school Japanese Navy judo BB - no-gi. Dude was strong and fierce and had a super simple game plan based around the kimura and footlocks. Interestingly, he refused to do BJJ in a gi for fear of messing up his judo game.


Both were judo BB, both were tough, and both had technically sound judo. As in, they could do judo moves well. But one could hang with purple and brown belts while the other couldn't survive with blue belts.

As Calibur said, there's a lot of depth at the black belt level. Many sound technicians too, but not all can provide tough competition. It seems natural that a similar phenomena would happen in the States.

I think part of the problem is that you're trying to compare the super simple and straightforward BJJ belt system to judo's worldwide clusterfuck of a system.

Belt colors in judo are largely meaningless, as it's all about kyu/dan rank. Country to country, judoka can't even decide on the color system for kyus. A judo "black belt" could mean a shodan or a godan.

 

[SheerTechnique]

When people talk about belts being watered down, I always chuckle. I don't think belts are watered down, I just think the top guys are so much better now than they used to be that it creates a false sense of inferiority on part of lower belts. Go back to the times when belts were so sacred, maybe the late 90s and early 2000s in the US, and spar with a blue or purple belt from that time period. Most modern blue and purple belts would whip their asses, because the sport has developed so much technically since then.

BJJ used to have an aura of invincibility because nobody knew anything about it, and that led to veneration of people with comparatively minor expertise by today's standards. Today's blue belts aren't comparing themselves to TKD LARPers, they're comparing themselves to professional grapplers which is a species which didn't exist back in the day when belts were 'pure'. I started BJJ in 2002, and I can tell you that my purple belt self would destroy my purple belt instructor at the time, even though I'm not a professional by any stretch of the imagination. Yet at the time the guy was basically a god, there were maybe 3 purple belts in the state and I don't know if we had any black belts. The closest one was probably in Chicago (I was living in Indiana at the time).

Just everyone have a little perspective on the days when belts were really hard to get. It's not that guys were a lot better then, quite the opposite in fact. If belts are easier to get now at least part of that is that it's much easier to get good now because there are plenty of schools with competent BB instructors and lots of good upper belt training partners.

This is one of best posts in this thread and spot on, IMHO. I've only been in the sport for 10 years and I've seen the exact same thing. As a 4 stripe brown belt, I feel my game is solid but I still have a tough time with some of these competitive purple belts who train 3 times per day, every day. With a family and full-time job, I don't even try to hold myself to their standards.

With that being said, the belt is just a belt. If/when I get promoted to black, it doesn't matter, I will keep training the way I do now. If I get tapped by a world champion purple belt, I really don't care because it's just "training". I am training to defend myself and do okay in some local tournaments. A brown belt should be competent enough to understand all positions in and out plus be able to teach someone to purple belt level with sound basics.

 

[cadubon]

Let me chime in a little bit and give my opinion on some of the issues discussed. First of all, I would like to add that I am a BJJ black belt. I can humbly say that I know that I'm a "real" black belt, is because I have rolled with hundreds of brown and black belts in the U.S and Brazil. Some I catch, the good ones catch me, and I stall with some. When people say that a black belt should not be caught by a purple or blue belt, I think that is insane. I have rolled with world class purple belts that have me on the run the entire time. Recently, I rolled with a blue belt that won Pans and Worlds that had me on the run the whole time too. I am 37 years old and have trained for a little over 8 years. Sometimes, some of them are a little bit faster and end up on my back or maybe even passing. Thats ok though because these purple belts are doing te same thing to 90% of the other black belts. Some guys are just really good.

I will also add, that this is rare though. I can submit around 95% of all browns and about half the black belts I rolled with. At the end of the day, it really doesnt matter to me. I train because I enjoy it.

 

[CinemaKingdom]

Probably depends on the school, but regardless it means you are pretty advanced. I know in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu they defined a new Blue Belt as someone who can handle himself against a bigger attacker on the street.

I don't remember the exact definitions after that but I assume a purple is someone who can handle himself against a skilled attacker the same size, brown would be a skilled attacker who is bigger and black is pretty much able to handle anyone and just time in, mastering all techniques.

 

[TheFakeMacoy]

I think part of the problem is that you're trying to compare the super simple and straightforward BJJ belt system to judo's worldwide clusterfuck of a system.

Belt colors in judo are largely meaningless, as it's all about kyu/dan rank. Country to country, judoka can't even decide on the color system for kyus. A judo "black belt" could mean a shodan or a godan.

Part of it is that the ranks below ikkyu aren't that important. At least in Canada, competitions are nikyu and below, or ikkyu and above. While there is a wide variation in skill between shodans and higher, competition sorts it out. I think uchi mata is correct in that those who are less competitive will freely admit it, so there isn't any real confusion about where people stand.