What does a Brown Belt mean in BJJ

[JustTheTip]

And it's important to not hold everyone up to competition standards.

A competition blue can probably smash some Browns and blacks at his weight. A competition Purple would probably smash all normal Browns and blacks at his weight.

But to Ensure that we don't Chase off all the very essential training partners who don't fit the bill of future champion we can't hold them all back because they don't measure up to the 1 out of 1000 talents.

Or we end up like many other martial sports where only a handful of talents are left and if they're not of roughly the same weightclass, tough Luck on getting relevant sparring.

I disagree. I've seen and trained with some of the best Blue belts and they definitely weren't smashing average Black or Brown belts. I've actually seen the opposite of what you are describing. I've been seeing guys that don't feel comfortable in their belt sparring LESS and guys that feel they SHOULD be promoted(because of ability) rolling more with higher belts to "prove" they should be that belt. Not saying competition should be everything, but I'm seeing guys that really don't feel they are above average at their current belt complaining that they haven't been promoted yet because of all the time they put in.

 

[JustTheTip]

And it's important to not hold everyone up to competition standards.

A competition blue can probably smash some Browns and blacks at his weight. A competition Purple would probably smash all normal Browns and blacks at his weight.

But to Ensure that we don't Chase off all the very essential training partners who don't fit the bill of future champion we can't hold them all back because they don't measure up to the 1 out of 1000 talents.

Or we end up like many other martial sports where only a handful of talents are left and if they're not of roughly the same weightclass, tough Luck on getting relevant sparring.

I disagree. I've seen and trained with some of the best Blue belts and they definitely weren't smashing average Black or Brown belts. I've actually seen the opposite of what you are describing. I've been seeing guys that don't feel comfortable in their belt sparring LESS and guys that feel they SHOULD be promoted(because of ability) rolling more with higher belts to "prove" they should be that belt. Not saying competition should be everything, but I'm seeing guys that really don't feel they are above average at their current belt complaining that they haven't been promoted yet because of all the time they put in.
IMHO the internal question/test is this:
Say you are at Open Mat at your academy. An athletic guy at your belt and around your age walks in. Will you roll with him first? Or will you wait to watch other guys roll with him first to gauge whether or not you think he is below or at your level? IMO if you think you should be promoted, you want to roll with that guy off the bat because you are comfortable with your ability at your belt level.

 

[Rivet L]

What a brown belt means is also highly dependent on regional trends and age.

If you're under 30 getting a brown belt is a big deal, because you're measured on against a very high bar. After 30, a brown belt could just mean an acknowledgement of that persons devotion.

 

[350 lbs fist]

One of Our blues recently subbed a pretty decent black in a submission only match.

One of Our Purples back in the day went 90 minutes With a good Brazilian black belt in a no time limit sub only match before they made them do a 10 minute Points round where he lost on a guardpass.

We have a heavyweight blue at Our academy who I've yet to roll With but seeing as I don't Train With the GI anymore I don't doubt he'd smash me. ( I'm a heavyweight Brown )

 

[ajf]

I'm coming up on 2 years at brown, and in that time my views on belt level and skill have simplified a lot... A brown belt should be able to give a good, tough fight to almost anyone who isn't a competitive or world-class black belt. Whether you're 21 or 51, male or female, full-time competitor or a hobbyist, I think that's the common denominator. It doesn't matter what mix of technicality and physicality that you combine to achieve that as long as you're consistently smoking most purples and hanging with other browns. Obviously you want to get to the point where you're smoking most other brown belts and hanging with black belts, but that's more of a black belt level question than what it means/what is required to get your brown.

Beyond that, my opinion is that there should be a mentality of tenaciousness and toughness which comes with the belt. Skipping rounds should be considered a sin, no whining when you catch an elbow to the face or if someone plants you hard off of a throw or shot. Looking back, I wish I'd focused on this more, earlier on in my training. On the technical side, the questions brown belts ask will usually be about finite portions of the game (grip options, subtle changes in weight distribution, etc) and they should be able to duplicate just about any position shown without any visible errors.

 

[nefti]

for me? it just means black belts don't feel bad about destrying you in sparring.

 

[randomg1t]

This will change over time just like it has with every other belt. It's a matter of market saturation.

It starts with "bjj is a special martial art. Even blue belts can KILL YOU!"

Than it became, "Blue belts can be good, but some of them suck. Purples! those are the guys that are consistently good!"

Now it's "Blues don't know sh!t. Purples are usually good, but their are some who got their belt from time in service, but brown belts are always legit. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT."

VERY soon it will be "Blue belts are handed out like candy, purple belts can be kind of good sometimes, some guys get their brown belts out of pity, but NO one gives out a black belt unless it's deserved.

And in the not-to-distant future it will be "So what, he's a black belt. I know black belts that suck. What did the guy win?"

You will see this amp up as the pity blues become pity purples and than become pity browns. Two guys join. One guy trains consistantly, the other guy inconsistant and not a natural athlete. You promote them together, but the skill gap is there. Now the inconsistant blue belt is being tapped by inconsistant white belts, so now you gotta promote the inconsistant white belts to blue before they're ready as well as. The blue belt never gets more consistent and soon he is given a purple belt out of pity because his motivation is clearly gone, especially since his consistent friend is doing so much better.

This continues for years until one day you have a school full of people who would leave you clueless on their rank if none of them wore belts. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, since if the instructor has done his job right, he's created a nice family profitable atmosphere.

i think this is very true as far as belts in general are concerned, but the exact opposite is happening with the competition scene.

guys winning mundials at purple belt are pretty much professional athletes. bjj is their career, and i'm willing to bet most of them clown the average black belt like it's no one's business. and with the popularity of the sport growing, i think the same will very soon apply to blue belts, too.

i'm a purple belt and people in my gym think i'm really good (we're a small gym, only a handful of purple belts), but i'd honestly feel embarrassed if i walked into aoj or atos wearing the purple, because every blue belt in their competition class would twist me into a pretzel.

so yeah. watered down in gyms, crazy high standards in high profile competition.

 

[gottoesplosivo]

i guess something like "ok look, I could probably beat you up easily"

 

[Spyder Guard]

randomg1t speaks the truth.

 

[Uchi Mata]

This will change over time just like it has with every other belt. It's a matter of market saturation.

It starts with "bjj is a special martial art. Even blue belts can KILL YOU!"

Than it became, "Blue belts can be good, but some of them suck. Purples! those are the guys that are consistently good!"

Now it's "Blues don't know sh!t. Purples are usually good, but their are some who got their belt from time in service, but brown belts are always legit. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT."

VERY soon it will be "Blue belts are handed out like candy, purple belts can be kind of good sometimes, some guys get their brown belts out of pity, but NO one gives out a black belt unless it's deserved.

And in the not-to-distant future it will be "So what, he's a black belt. I know black belts that suck. What did the guy win?"

You will see this amp up as the pity blues become pity purples and than become pity browns. Two guys join. One guy trains consistantly, the other guy inconsistant and not a natural athlete. You promote them together, but the skill gap is there. Now the inconsistant blue belt is being tapped by inconsistant white belts, so now you gotta promote the inconsistant white belts to blue before they're ready as well as. The blue belt never gets more consistent and soon he is given a purple belt out of pity because his motivation is clearly gone, especially since his consistent friend is doing so much better.

This continues for years until one day you have a school full of people who would leave you clueless on their rank if none of them wore belts. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, since if the instructor has done his job right, he's created a nice family profitable atmosphere.

Meh. This hasn't really happened in Judo, and it's been around longer than BJJ. Competition really keeps you honest, because even the non-competitors usually roll with some competitive guys and understand the difference between serious competitors at a belt level and hobbyists at a belt level. In Judo you do have guys who get their black belts for time in grade, teaching kids, refereeing, etc. but they know they're not stone cold killers and are usually very open about it. I don't really have a problem with people getting belts based upon how close they are to their own potential (even if they can't tap competitive blue belts) as long as everyone understands why they're getting their belt and what it means. Ultimately belts are a sign of knowledge more than skill IMO, it's not like we take away black belts from old masters when their ability to roll competitively declines. If you want to know who has the best skills in BJJ, look at the Mundials podium. There is much, much less delusion in BJJ and you typically don't have ridiculous pissing contests over rank whenever people from different schools train together, so I think we're still doing okay.

 

[Uchi Mata]

i think this is very true as far as belts in general are concerned, but the exact opposite is happening with the competition scene.

guys winning mundials at purple belt are pretty much professional athletes. bjj is their career, and i'm willing to bet most of them clown the average black belt like it's no one's business. and with the popularity of the sport growing, i think the same will very soon apply to blue belts, too.

i'm a purple belt and people in my gym think i'm really good (we're a small gym, only a handful of purple belts), but i'd honestly feel embarrassed if i walked into aoj or atos wearing the purple, because every blue belt in their competition class would twist me into a pretzel.

so yeah. watered down in gyms, crazy high standards in high profile competition.

When people talk about belts being watered down, I always chuckle. I don't think belts are watered down, I just think the top guys are so much better now than they used to be that it creates a false sense of inferiority on part of lower belts. Go back to the times when belts were so sacred, maybe the late 90s and early 2000s in the US, and spar with a blue or purple belt from that time period. Most modern blue and purple belts would whip their asses, because the sport has developed so much technically since then.

BJJ used to have an aura of invincibility because nobody knew anything about it, and that led to veneration of people with comparatively minor expertise by today's standards. Today's blue belts aren't comparing themselves to TKD LARPers, they're comparing themselves to professional grapplers which is a species which didn't exist back in the day when belts were 'pure'. I started BJJ in 2002, and I can tell you that my purple belt self would destroy my purple belt instructor at the time, even though I'm not a professional by any stretch of the imagination. Yet at the time the guy was basically a god, there were maybe 3 purple belts in the state and I don't know if we had any black belts. The closest one was probably in Chicago (I was living in Indiana at the time).

Just everyone have a little perspective on the days when belts were really hard to get. It's not that guys were a lot better then, quite the opposite in fact. If belts are easier to get now at least part of that is that it's much easier to get good now because there are plenty of schools with competent BB instructors and lots of good upper belt training partners.

 

[Matsukaze]

Ari Bolden laughs at this post.

Now thats funny..

 

[Matsukaze]

If blue belts are submitting black belts then there is a real problem here. I am a blue belt with 7 years of constant bjj training and I have never came close to submitting any of the black belts I have rolled with....minus when they feed me a submission trying to show me the finer points, but I know when I was being "given" a submission.

 

[NateTx4112]

If blue belts are submitting black belts then there is a real problem here. I am a blue belt with 7 years of constant bjj training and I have never came close to submitting any of the black belts I have rolled with....minus when they feed me a submission trying to show me the finer points, but I know when I was being "given" a submission.

I've seen a blue belt who placed Silver at Worlds submit legitimate black belts in training. I'm talking about a blackbelt who took Justin Rader to the absolute limit in a couple of epic matches. It happens with world class level guys.

Now he didn't get the best of him every roll but he did put him in bad spots and make him work. It wasn't a fluke tap, it was legitimate control.

People don't realize how good elite level guys are. I would bet money on Nicholas Meregali catching greater than 75% of the black belts he rolls with that are not mundial finalists every year at the blackbelt level and he's just a lowly purple belt right?

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

The Dagestani Brown Belt that Shocked the World, Abdurakhman Bilarov :

 

[one.armed.jack]

I stop reading these threads the minute someone says "submitted in training". Anyone with experience knows this doesn't mean squat, given any of a dozen different factors.

What makes a brown belt, you ask? Well for one, he doesn't EVER "train" at 100%. And two, he knows the difference between rolling in a gym and rolling in a competition.

Go train, guys. Go learn, go prioritize, and stop looking to make notches on your belts.

 

[deadlizard]

I stop reading these threads the minute someone says "submitted in training". Anyone with experience knows this doesn't mean squat, given any of a dozen different factors.

What makes a brown belt, you ask? Well for one, he doesn't EVER "train" at 100%. And two, he knows the difference between rolling in a gym and rolling in a competition.

Go train, guys. Go learn, go prioritize, and stop looking to make notches on your belts.

You train how you compete.

If I get passed by a person of lower rank, it's a wake up call to wake the fuck up and not be so careless. I don't try to justify "losing".

P.S. I always go 100%.

 

[Nnedd]

I think about the brown and black belts that I train with.

Of course, I think about how I do against them sparring, but that's ultimately not what I think about when I think about their rank. I might sweep them, or hold advantage, or tap them (no-gi mostly), but that doesn't make me feel like I am at their rank.

I think about their answers.

Whatever the question is, about leg position, about the pitfalls of various grips or motions in every position, they have good, sound, fundamental answers. There isn't a right or wrong answer to every question in combat, but there are good and bad ones.

The brown belts I know have great answers to every question, because they have a great understanding of both the small and the big things that go into grappling.

Black belts are Instructors. I think Brown Belts are just about to the point that they can instruct at that level as well. Just not quite.

 

[Deleted member 53472]

It means that you wear a piece of long cloth that is brown in color around your waist

 

[tenktriangles]

When people talk about belts being watered down, I always chuckle. I don't think belts are watered down, I just think the top guys are so much better now than they used to be that it creates a false sense of inferiority on part of lower belts. Go back to the times when belts were so sacred, maybe the late 90s and early 2000s in the US, and spar with a blue or purple belt from that time period. Most modern blue and purple belts would whip their asses, because the sport has developed so much technically since then.

BJJ used to have an aura of invincibility because nobody knew anything about it, and that led to veneration of people with comparatively minor expertise by today's standards. Today's blue belts aren't comparing themselves to TKD LARPers, they're comparing themselves to professional grapplers which is a species which didn't exist back in the day when belts were 'pure'. I started BJJ in 2002, and I can tell you that my purple belt self would destroy my purple belt instructor at the time, even though I'm not a professional by any stretch of the imagination. Yet at the time the guy was basically a god, there were maybe 3 purple belts in the state and I don't know if we had any black belts. The closest one was probably in Chicago (I was living in Indiana at the time).

Just everyone have a little perspective on the days when belts were really hard to get. It's not that guys were a lot better then, quite the opposite in fact. If belts are easier to get now at least part of that is that it's much easier to get good now because there are plenty of schools with competent BB instructors and lots of good upper belt training partners.

I think both things are true. I think the game has improved tremendously, due to the number of people playing it, the fact that it's no longer isolated in Brazil, and people are attempting to pursue it as a livelihood now.

at the same time, the growth has brought with it some watering down. it's inevitable, at least here in america. about 15 years ago i worked at a sushi place, and it was still very much assumed that any sushi place would have a real Japanese sushi chef. the quality was exclusively very high. I don't think people assume that when they go for sushi anymore. you can still get fantastic stuff, but you can also get mediocre junk too.