What did Helio do exactly?

[Thaiboxer10000]

i think the biggest difference is the training methods, Brazilians (helio ect) rolled more & developed a more fluid training style that makes you rely more on leverage than the formal Japanese style training.

 

[war path]

h e whooped peoples asses but the thing is that he looked like a whimp and that is what intrigues people

 

[futang17]

h e whooped peoples asses but the thing is that he looked like a whimp and that is what intrigues people

Mifune is 5'2 and just over 100lb... and Kano was 5'2" 90 lbs....

Here's Mifune in action



edit for highlights:

check out his newaza and guard work starting at 4:00

 

[JoshGrrrr]

Helio's size isn't the reason he had to modify the art to use less strength. He was known to be extremely weak, frail, and often sick.

 

[JoshGrrrr]

i think the biggest difference is the training methods, Brazilians (helio ect) rolled more & developed a more fluid training style that makes you rely more on leverage than the formal Japanese style training.

Exactly. Control, position, submission. That's what Helio brought to it. The focus changed from the standing game, to the ground game and eventually became almost completely ground.

You can look at the two martial arts now and see how drastic the differences are.

 

[nefti]

Yes because the creators of judo were such huge men

actually if you look at the early history of judo, it's champions were accomplished martial artists in other styles that "choose/was convinced" to fight under Kano's banner. Also, why aren't you putting things in perspective? Were judokas small compared to the rest of the japanese population at that time? Mifume is an amazing athelete with amazing reflexes even at an advanced age.

 

[Iscariott]

Helio's size isn't the reason he had to modify the art to use less strength. He was known to be extremely weak, frail, and often sick.

You mean like Kano? The guy who created the damn art.

 

[RacerX]

Exactly. Control, position, submission. That's what Helio brought to it. The focus changed from the standing game, to the ground game and eventually became almost completely ground.

You can look at the two martial arts now and see how drastic the differences are.

Control, position, and submission have been a part of newaza from the begining. You can win by pin in Judo, which is to say by estabishing positional control. And the idea that you could learn newaza all day was no secret either. The Fusen-ryu jujutsu guys were the newaza experts of their day.

The first part of this explains it:

History of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

 

[nefti]

You mean like Kano? The guy who created the damn art.

what did kano create? Most if not all of his "champions" that fought for judo were not his students but rather accomplished martial artits from other styles.

 

[JoshGrrrr]

Control, position, and submission have been a part of newaza from the begining. You can win by pin in Judo, which is to say by estabishing positional control. And the idea that you could learn newaza all day was no secret either. The Fusen-ryu jujutsu guys were the newaza experts of their day.

The first part of this explains it:

History of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

It's a part of every grappling art. It isn't just part of BJJ though, it's the core of it. It is BJJ. Every thing else revolves around that.

 

[RacerX]

It's a part of every grappling art. It isn't just part of BJJ though, it's the core of it. It is BJJ. Every thing else revolves around that.

It's really the core of wrestling, which is why, when they learn submission defense, they give everyone so much trouble.


As for Kano using people from other schools in his early competitions, Kano himself obviously learned from other schools. That some of the fighters were originally from other schools too shouldn't be surprising. And the man truly responsible for the existance of BJJ, Maeda, was a Kodokan Judoka.

This is about the best history of the founder and the foundation of Judo you will easily find:

Jigoro Kano and Kodokan Judo

 

[peytonlucy]

If one of Helio's achievements are his off-spring then do we need to credit Mrs. Gracie for her open guard?

Rorion, who seems to be the most disliked Gracie, deserves a brown belt in marketing.

 

[JoshGrrrr]

It's really the core of wrestling, which is why, when they learn submission defense, they give everyone so much trouble.

I look at BJJ and wrestling sort of as brothers who don't really get along very well.

The school I train at is pretty old school. My instructor is a Machado black belt. It's pretty traditional BJJ. We still drill sit outs, firemans carry, 2 on 1 russians, arm drags, single legs, etc. I think it is impossible to be a good grappler without taking some of both. I guess you really can't take BJJ without taking some wrestling. It's been mixed in since Helio's time. Any BJJ guy who doesn't respect wrestling's influence on BJJ is an idiot.

 

[supernova]

He got his arm broken by the greatest judoka of all time, Masahiko Kimura. Kimura practiced it osoto gari on trees because he was banned from using it in class due to repeated injuries.

Before the broken arm Helio envisioned modification of an existing art to give all people footing in a fight regardless of the opponent.

 

[RacerX]

...

I think it is impossible to be a good grappler without taking some of both. I guess you really can't take BJJ without taking some wrestling. It's been mixed in since Helio's time. Any BJJ guy who doesn't respect wrestling's influence on BJJ is an idiot.

You definitely see this combination work very well in MMA (especially with North American fighters since wrestling is a school sport and BJJ is widely available).

 

[jasond]

I remember the first time i cussed

:icon_chee

 

[teamcarvalho]

I have been doing a lot of research on BJJ in Brazil...trying to find anything on the history. I have been reading on the Red Belts of BJJ....men like Armando Wriedt, Amelio Camara, Luiz Franca Filho...interesting stuff.

For instance Armando Wriedt, who trained under Helio Gracie, liked using foot locks. He stated that Carlos and Helio did not like foot locks but he did and used them a lot.

George Gracie, who nobody mentions, was a good fighter himself and he even had some conflict with his brother Helio. They both had different styles of training.

Also another Red Belt named Nahum Luiz Rabay, who trained under George Gracie, also trained in Judo and fought Vale-Tudo fights as well.

This is good stuff and I like reading it......there are a lot of Jiu-Jitsu black belts in Brazil that have been around a long time.......we just don't hear about them in the U.S.

Also BJJ Heroes has a good blog and is starting to cover some of the history of BJJ...check his blog out.

 

[bigraydaddy1]

Helio gave us the best salesman since Ron Popiel in Rorion.

Helio believed that if you were rich enough to pay for the 40 lessons from him that you should be able to defend yourself.

 

[MickCollins]

Helio gave us the best salesman since Ron Popiel in Rorion.

Helio believed that if you were rich enough to pay for the 40 lessons from him that you should be able to defend yourself.

Lol. And Helio's Ron Popeil has given us 2 sons that are Billy Mays jr's.

 

[lechien]

Helio gave us the best salesman since Ron Popiel in Rorion.

Helio believed that if you were rich enough to pay for the 40 lessons from him that you should be able to defend yourself.

Correct and he gave them a blue belt at the completion of the program.

We are sandbagging way too hard.